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Thread: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

  1. #11
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*dara View Post
    I am always wondering if there is something wrong or something more that I can be doing.
    This.is.EXACTLY what's been stressing me out.

    And also (especially) the idea that I've been nursing her TOO MUCH it messes with her growth .

    Last pedi said the thought there could be 3 reasons for slow weight gain: 1/ baby doesn't get enough calories, 2/baby doesn't absorb nutrients well, and 3/baby has some chronic condition. Since she had ruled out 2/ and 3/ she was pretty sure it was 1/. I agree with her and plan to up her calories, but I hate that she implied that replacing some (almost half - she said to cut it down to 4-6 feedings/day from 8-10, where we are now) of the BM she's getting with solids will help her growth. However part of me thinks what if she's right
    Last edited by @llli*irismom; November 2nd, 2010 at 07:46 AM.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    And also (especially) the idea that I've been nursing her TOO MUCH it messes with her growth .
    Breastmilk is really high-calorie, compared to most solids. If you want a kid to gain weight, what do you offer- some veggies, or a milkshake? So I highly doubt that nursing is messing with your child's growth. And I'm sorry someone has been making you feel that way.

    Last pedi said the thought there could be 3 reasons for slow weight gain: 1/ baby doesn't get enough calories, 2/baby doesn't absorb nutrients well, and 3/baby has some chronic condition. Since she had ruled out 2/ and 3/ she was pretty sure it was 1/. I agree with her and plan to up her calories, but I hate that she implied that replacing some (almost half - she said to cut it down to 4-6 feedings/day from 8-10, where we are now) of the BM she's getting with solids will help her growth. However part of me thinks what if she's right
    Hmm, the first pediatrician ruled out #s 2 and 3. But maybe a set of fresh eyes and some different tests could rule them back in? Saying "Oh, it must be you and the nursing that's causing the slow gain," seems nonsensical to me when it sounds like very little/no testing has been done.

    Do you pump at all? One thing you could do would be to make bottles of double-cream milk- pump 2 bottles and let them settle, then add the cream from one bottle to the second. Yum!
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  3. #13
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mommal View Post
    Breastmilk is really high-calorie, compared to most solids. If you want a kid to gain weight, what do you offer- some veggies, or a milkshake? So I highly doubt that nursing is messing with your child's growth. And I'm sorry someone has been making you feel that way.
    I think the reason doctors say this is that they think LOs who are getting /almost/ enough calories from nursing aren't motivated to try solids. That's the only reason I can think of.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    As long as there is nothing medical going on - some babies (and adults) are "just small". Really. It's okay. If a LO is "just small" then pumping them full of extra calories won't suddenly make them "big".

    The growth percentiles just mean that out of 100 babies, if a baby is 5% then there are 95 babies that are larger. And SOMEBODY needs to have that small LO.

    We ruled out medical stuff, worked with a registered dietitian to make sure that DS1 is getting the nutrition he needs, then learned to relax.

    As for food - do you do "baby led solids"? It is a great way of helping teach LO how to self-regulate eating. Offer baby healthy food options, then let baby choose what and how much to eat. And continue breastfeeding!
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  5. #15
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    I can't thank you enough mamas. There are mamas that are willing to read another's (LONG) concerns about HER LO and share thoughts, give info and encouragement. Only being able to talk to you helps me process the (mess of) info, thoughts and emotions in my head.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mommal View Post
    :Breastmilk is really high-calorie, compared to most solids. If you want a kid to gain weight, what do you offer- some veggies, or a milkshake? So I highly doubt that nursing is messing with your child's growth. And I'm sorry someone has been making you feel that way.
    This last pedi wanted me to offer yams. And butter (for a LO with dairy sensitivity ).

    Hmm, the first pediatrician ruled out #s 2 and 3. But maybe a set of fresh eyes and some different tests could rule them back in? Saying "Oh, it must be you and the nursing that's causing the slow gain," seems nonsensical to me when it sounds like very little/no testing has been done.
    This is the 4th pedi she's been seen by since 3MO because we've lived in 3 different states since she was 6MO. None of the pedis (one of them was an OMD, Dr. Randall Neustaedter) thought it was necessary to do any test on her, even though every one of them thought she was small. I worry from time to time about an undiscovered, undiagnosed medical problem, too, but really she's plump-and-rosy-cheeked, always happy and smiling, always full of energy, doesn't vomit or have diarrhea, is sensitive to dairy in my diet but has had no problem eating any other solids.

    Do you pump at all? One thing you could do would be to make bottles of double-cream milk- pump 2 bottles and let them settle, then add the cream from one bottle to the second. Yum!
    I'm thinking about starting pumping again for a few different reasons. I'll probably try the double-cream-milk idea in some way and see if it helps .

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*TimsMom View Post
    I think the reason doctors say this is that they think LOs who are getting /almost/ enough calories from nursing aren't motivated to try solids. That's the only reason I can think of.
    I told her my baby is SUPER interested in solids and it looks to *me* like she's eating closer to enough (if not already enough) for her age (kellymom site has it that at 12MO BM:solids should be 75%:25% in baby's diet). But pedi said in the 2nd year BM doesn't provide enough calories and solids will do a better job.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lsksam View Post
    As long as there is nothing medical going on - some babies (and adults) are "just small". Really. It's okay. If a LO is "just small" then pumping them full of extra calories won't suddenly make them "big".

    The growth percentiles just mean that out of 100 babies, if a baby is 5% then there are 95 babies that are larger. And SOMEBODY needs to have that small LO.
    So, since we keep having to switch pedis (because of out-of-state moveS) the last two ones never bothered with her GROWTH CURVE but only marked her the charts and focused on the weight one since it was low/off the chart. I just did the curves myself using info from the previous pedi, who saw DD the first 7 months) and her growth actually is not that bad.

    She started out on the 5th percentile in all departments and steadily grew in height and head circumference and is now in the 50th percentile for both. For weight she was growing with leaps and bounds between 3MO and 5MO, slowed down gradually (the curve got less and less steep) and is level from 9MO to 12MO. (Actually, at 10.5MO she lost like 3oz from 9MO after 2 days of roseola, and is now back to her 9MO weight, so she did gain a teeny tiny bit there )

    It's really not that bad, isn't it? That of course doesn't mean I'm not going to do anything about it - sure I'd like to see DD gain some weight, if not more than less.

    As for food - do you do "baby led solids"? It is a great way of helping teach LO how to self-regulate eating. Offer baby healthy food options, then let baby choose what and how much to eat. And continue breastfeeding!
    We do BLS right from the start (6.5MO) and LOVE it (so you still don't remember me posting here asking question after question about BLS do you ) I've learned a lot from you in that area, too. Thank you!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    WV
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    75

    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    Is your ped using a chart for breastfed babies? http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/chart3.html is WHO's chart and it looks like she is still on the chart.

    Are you on the small side? Is she otherwise healthy? You mentioned that she's not walking independently yet, but may 12 month old babies are not quite there yet. Is she otherwise meeting milestones? Many breastfed babies slow down on the growth curve between 6-12 months. Also, when babies become active they slow down in weight gain.

    It sounds like she might just be a small child. I know that I personally had a 16lb one year old too who didn't eat many solids. There are many children who do fine without many solids through the second year of life.

    You can try offering solids before nursing but there's no need to cut down to 4-6 nursings per day. You can't nurse too much! If anything, more milk will help her weight gain, not hurt it. Your milk is fine for your baby, so don't doubt yourself
    Theresa
    LLL Leader

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    558

    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*sixyearplan View Post
    Have you talked to the pedi about checking her insulin growth factor (IGF), thyroid, and to test for turner syndrome? There are many possible causes of short stature.

    My first started out normal size and just kept droppng further and further down the charts to 15 lbs 11 oz. She had "pituitary dwarfism" and ended up needed growth hormone. Her bone age is also delayed (was by 3-4 years and now only 1 year delayed - she is 14.5 yo now). I also agree that you should rule out other medical causes as well. My DD did not gain when we pushed solids or after she weaned. She got even skinnier and smaller.

    My second fell off the charts for months due to reflux and natural short stature, but nursing like crazy and offering lots of avocado bumped her up to 17 lbs at a year. She is about 22+ lbs at 24 months.
    Thanks for alerting me to those possible medical causes.

    My DD, though, has been dropping percentile ONLY on the weight chart, but going UP on both the height and head circumference ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*LLLTheresa View Post
    Is your ped using a chart for breastfed babies? http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/chart3.html is WHO's chart and it looks like she is still on the chart.

    Are you on the small side? Is she otherwise healthy? You mentioned that she's not walking independently yet, but may 12 month old babies are not quite there yet. Is she otherwise meeting milestones? Many breastfed babies slow down on the growth curve between 6-12 months. Also, when babies become active they slow down in weight gain.

    It sounds like she might just be a small child. I know that I personally had a 16lb one year old too who didn't eat many solids. There are many children who do fine without many solids through the second year of life.

    You can try offering solids before nursing but there's no need to cut down to 4-6 nursings per day. You can't nurse too much! If anything, more milk will help her weight gain, not hurt it. Your milk is fine for your baby, so don't doubt yourself
    OMG, THANKS for reminding me of that chart for breastfed babies. She IS still on the chart, between the mean -1.5 and mean -2.5 lines (about 17% percentile?) that chart!!

    She isn't walking independently but walks very well supported by a push toy or an adult walking behind holding her hands. She otherwise meets her milestones. I think other than being a slow WEIGHT gainer she seems healthy: bright-eyed, rosy-cheeked, extremely happy, active and bright.

    Oh I AM small (average for my ethnicity, but is only 5'1''), DH is 5'7".

    I would certainly see about doing what I can to improve her weight gain, but I DEFINITELY feel MUCH better now. Thank you LLLadies!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Landof2toddlers, Oregon
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    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    if you are 5'1 and your DH 5'7 how can they expect a big baby? You are both tiny.

    http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/weight-gain-calculator.html
    is one of my favourite sites when I am freaking out about growth. Dont necessarily do it from visit to visit (one visit can be right after a growth spurt the next right before and then you get an odd result) but from age range to age range.
    mama sounds like your baby isn't doing too badly at all.
    proud but exhausted working mammy to two high needs babies

    • my surprise baby: the one and only D-Man born 3 weeks late (5/5/08) at 9 lbs 14 oz and 21.5 inches, and
    • the shock H-Girl born about a week late (10/7/09) at 8lbs 15oz and 20.75 inches.


    If I am here I am covered in baby (probably two) and fighting for control of the keyboard.

    Family beds are awesome

    Wondering if you have PPD? Take the screening and see your doctor. You deserve to feel better.

  9. #19
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    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*irismom View Post
    We do BLS right from the start (6.5MO) and LOVE it (so you still don't remember me posting here asking question after question about BLS do you ) I've learned a lot from you in that area, too. Thank you!
    Sorry!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*durhamgrrl View Post
    if you are 5'1 and your DH 5'7 how can they expect a big baby? You are both tiny.
    WSS

    Remember - by definition the way the % are set up SOMEBODY will be the one to have a baby who is 5% or smaller and SOMEBODY will be the one to have a baby who is 95%. As long as there is nothing going on medically BOTH are totally normal!

    It seems like some docs automatically get alarmed if a LO is under 5%. IMO it does seem totally reasonable to rule out medical problems, but then after that just try to relax and appreciate your LO.

    Genetics are funny - both my DS were the same gestational age and same birth weight, but DS1 was (and still is) teeny and "barely on the charts" while baby brother is a chunker. Our pediatrician thinks its funny.
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    21,178

    Default Re: She fell off the chart - I knew it!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*irismom View Post
    Oh I AM small (average for my ethnicity, but is only 5'1''), DH is 5'7".
    Ethnicity should definitely be part of the equation! The standard charts were developed using formula-fed, midwestern, exclusively Caucasian infants. Not a representative population of all babies! They don't even accurately assess breastfed Caucasian babies, and they certainly don't accurately assess breastfed babies of other racial/ethnic backgrounds. The WHO charts are better because they sampled babies of all racial/ethnic backgrounds.

    I'm that if you are small and your DH is small (I mean small relative to people from certain other ethnic backgrounds), you shouldn't expect your baby to look like a corn-fed Caucasian chunker!
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

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