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Thread: I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

  1. #1

    Default I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

    My son is 8 weeks old and sadly, the entire time breastfeeding has been uncomfortable and painful rather than sweet and bonding...
    He weighs probably between 9 - 10 lbs by now, and seems to be thriving.
    Background:
    Although had unmedicated natural birth, was below weight in a foreign hospital, and despite my wishes, was given bottle the first week (as well as breast) he took both, but has had nipple confusion ever since and GNAWS at my breast. I reposition him all the time.
    Through my studying our situation, I notice he nurses every hour (has for 2-3 weeks straight now), and after my MER kicks in (takes a minute or two) it only lasts for about 6 minutes on each side until my milk seems to dry up (no more swallowing, rather vigorous, irritated sucking). It always hurts. He is very vigorous!
    Question:
    I am wondering about milk supply... I can't pump as he is always on me, and I never get anything out when I do try...
    Wish I had someone close by here to watch and help! Any suggestions?
    Last edited by @llli*expectingexpat; September 21st, 2010 at 05:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

    How's his diaper output? Lots of wet and dirty diapers? When he unlatches, have you tried to self-express? Just to see if you have milk after he's finished a session.

    Here's a Kellymom link that addresses some of what you're experiencing. It's hard not having the availability of hands-on help. We'll do our best to help you successfully breastfeed your LO.

    http://www.kellymom.com/bf/normal/frequent-nursing.html

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

    I'm also curious about diaper output. If that's okay, then at a basic level breastfeeding is okay, because good diaper output = good milk input. (Here's a link on what you should be looking for in terms of diaper output: http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/enoughmilk-older.html)

    Can you tell us more about nursing and the discomfort you are experiencing?
    - When does it happen? Only at the beginning of a feeding, throughout the feeding, partway through the feeding, or after the feeding?
    - How would you describe the pain? Is it a burning, a tingling, or a stabbing pain?
    - What are your nipples shaped like after the baby is done nursing? Are they elongated and symmetrical, like pencil erasers, or elongated and asymmetrical, like new lipsticks?
    - Does the baby ever choke, gag, cough, or sputter at the breast? Do you ever see milk streaming or squirting from the breast when the baby unlatches?
    - Have you noticed any skin changes in your breasts- shininess, pinkness/redness, flaking skin, or white patches?
    - Is the baby able to stick his tongue out beyond his lower gums?
    - Is his tongue "heart shaped"? (Check out the pictures here: http://childrenspecialists.com/body.cfm?id=1186)

    Hang in there, Mama! We'll help if we can.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  4. #4
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    Default Re: I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

    You've had some great advice already, just wondering where you are? I'm an expat mom too, it can be so hard without family and friends nearby!
    Mama of two precious girls
    DD1 born 23 July 2008 and
    DD2 born 14 January 2010

  5. #5

    Default Re: I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

    THANK YOU LADIES!! So great to know I'm not alone out here!
    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mommal View Post
    I'm also curious about diaper output.
    FILLS DISPOSABLES EVERY 3-4 HOURS, CLOTH EVERY 1.5 HOURS W/ PEE
    POOs EVERY OTHER DAY NOW...
    Can you tell us more about nursing and the discomfort you are experiencing?
    - When does it happen? Only at the beginning of a feeding, throughout the feeding, partway through the feeding, or after the feeding? WELL, THE PAIN IS A BAD LATCH TYPE PAIN - I CAN FEEL HIM BITING. SOMETIMES I FEEL LIKE THE VEINS IN MY BREASTS ARE GOING TO POP AND THEY ACHE AND BURN (ANYTIME, AND NOT ENGORGED). IT FEELS LIKE A BURNING WHEN MY MER KICKS IN, AND AFTER WHILE NIPPLES ARE DRYING, A SENSITIVE TINGLING PAIN.
    - How would you describe the pain? Is it a burning, a tingling, or a stabbing pain? (ABOVE...)
    - What are your nipples shaped like after the baby is done nursing? Are they elongated and symmetrical, like pencil erasers, or elongated and asymmetrical, like new lipsticks? HMMM... I'D SAY ONE IS PENCIL ERASER, AND THE OTHER LIPSTICK. ONE NIPPLE LOOKS LIKE A MOUNTAIN WITH A LANDSLIDE DOWN ONE SIDE...
    - Does the baby ever choke, gag, cough, or sputter at the breast? Do you ever see milk streaming or squirting from the breast when the baby unlatches?
    YES! HE CHOKES AND GAGS AND COUGHS AND IT SCARES ME! ONLY WHEN I UNLATCH HIM TO TRY AND RE-POSITION MID-STREAM DO I SEE MILK SQUIRTING/STREAMING. THE "LIPSTICK/LANDSLIDE NIPPLE" LEAKS WHEN I FEED HIM THE OTHER SIDE.
    - Have you noticed any skin changes in your breasts- shininess, pinkness/redness, flaking skin, or white patches? YES. PINK/RED AND LIKE WHITE CALOUSES WHEN HE FINISHES. ALSO CRACKED AND DRY...I USE LANISOH TWICE OR 3X A DAY.
    - Is the baby able to stick his tongue out beyond his lower gums? YES. GOOD TONGUE...NO TONGUE-TIE OR CLEFT PALATE THAT I CAN SEE...
    - Is his tongue "heart shaped"? (Check out the pictures here: [url] NO.

    Hang in there, Mama! We'll help if we can.
    THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!

  6. #6
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    May 2006
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    Default Re: I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

    Thanks for answering all those questions! Based on your answers, I'm thinking that there are 2 strong possible causes for the pain you're having.

    The first is oversupply/overactive letdown (OS/OALD).
    OS/OALD would explain the burning/tingling, particularly when it occurs along with your MER. It also perfectly explains the coughing/gagging/choking and the squirting/streaming milk. The lipstick nipple can also be a product of OS/OALD- the baby "slips up" onto the nipple in order to compress it and thereby control the milk flow. My lactation consultant compared it to the baby "crimping the straw." And it also explains that "white callous"- one thing that can happen as a result of compression is vasospasm, which can cause the nipples to blanch and which is very painful.
    Two more questions:
    - What are the baby's poops like? Mustard yellow and seedy/curdy (like cheap mustard mixed with cottage cheese or yogurt), or greenish/brownish and watery/foamy?
    - Are you engorged at all?
    If the poops are yellow and curdy/seedy, then you may have OALD without OS or at least without significant OS. If they're greenish and watery and/or you're often engorged, then you probably have OS in addition to OALD. This impacts how you should manage the problem: if you have OALD alone, you should probably manage the problem with positioning. If it's OS/OALD, you may also need to do some block feeding.

    However, all of that doesn't rule out the second possibility, which is thrush. Thrush would explain the burning pain, he pink/red nipples, and the cracked, dry skin.

    Unfortunately, it is possible to have both OS/OALD and thrush simultaneously. The first thing I would do is to try the positioning tips in the first link I posted. If necessary, I would progress to block feeding. I would also contact your baby's pediatrician and your midwife or obstetrician and talk to them about the possibility of thrush. But if they just take a brief look in the baby's mouth and say "nope, not thrush," I would seek another opinion since many docs know only to look for the classic sign of thrush (white, pearly patches in the baby's mouth) and do not realize that it is possible for thrush to be present without the classic symptom. In addition, many practitioners don't realize that if it is thrush, both mama and baby must be treated even if one member of the nursing pair is asymptomatic.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  7. #7

    Default Re: I need help!! No access to LLL leader or Lactation consultant...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mommal View Post
    Two more questions:
    - What are the baby's poops like? Mustard yellow and seedy/curdy (like cheap mustard mixed with cottage cheese or yogurt), or greenish/brownish and watery/foamy?
    - Are you engorged at all?
    His poops changed a couple weeks ago from mustard yellow cottage cheese, to a choclatey brown watery consistency.
    I don't get engorged ever. He's always nursing!

    I have to ammend my answers after close observation: both nipples are eraser shape after feeding. And he only gags, coughs once in awhile and it seems to be if he's swallowing too fast?

    My biggest issue is his biting! No matter what position, or how many re-latches, he will not nurse without chomping down on my nipple. I've tried massaging his jaw, holding his chin down, and even pushing my pinky into his cheek tissue to try and have him feel the biting! So SAD! And nothing helps. I've recently tried a nipple shield, and he still bites down...
    If this continues, I'll have to wean when he gets teeth, or not have any other children as I will have no nipples to nurse with - they'll be bit clean off!

    Thanks for all the help! I am at wits end!

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