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Thread: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

  1. #31
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    Default Re: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*shannon75 View Post
    I must be way in the dark here, and I admit, I have never read anything about DODR, but I took the term quite literally and always viewed it as more child led weaning than mother led, although I assumed it was used for older toddlers. It may just be us, but once Ben was older, we were on a schedule that just came about on it's own, morning, nap and bed. I just stopped offering the morning session and he just went about his business, but then I offered at nap and night. There was only once that he wanted to nurse in the morning, and I did, which is my understanding of DODR. Then he just started refusing nursing at random for nap and bed, until he just stopped. This is what I thought don't offer, don't refuse was all about. If the child wants to nurse, you nurse, but you just don't set aside a specific/scheduled time anymore and whip out the boob if the child doesn't seem interested. Maybe I misunderstood
    I have to say that this was my understanding of DODR and this is how we practice it now. He wants to nurse, he nurses, but I don't run around after him to get him to nurse because it's a certain time. Thanls for posting this because what i had previously written wasn't quite what I was feeling and this hit in smack on the head!
    Kelly

    Mommy to Gabriel born 12/25/06 Breastfed 12/25/06 - 12/09 and possibly here and there still
    Madelyn born 9/24/09 delivered at home and caught by my husband

    "To put the world right in order, we must first put the nation in order; to put the nation in order, we must first put the family in order; to put the family in order, we must first cultivate our personal life; we must first set our hearts right."

  2. #32
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    Default Re: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

    Well my understanding comes from here and leaders here. So hopefully one will stop and in and clarify but the way we are speaking about it IS mother led. In child led weaning you the mother don't stop offering. The child is always offered and always reminded that the breast are there and available. The child refuses when ready. If you the mother stop offering, YOU are leading the way.

    Way too lazy for formula

  3. #33
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    Default Re: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

    Thanks Shelly - good suggestion!

    I poked around on the LLLI resources some.

    Baby-led weaning - what does it mean?

    To some Leaders, baby-led weaning seems to imply that mother does nothing, or should do nothing, and that total responsibility for weaning must be given to the child. Now I will agree that with an infant, the control of how long and how often that baby should nurse really does lie with the child alone and rightly so. We cannot begin to know or guess when the baby will be hungry, or how much he needs at each feeding, or whether or not he just wants to nurse for comfort.

    However, as that child grows, develops, discovers, and expands his capabilities, our relationship changes and it should change. We begin to know the child and can often anticipate his needs. We can tell by his actions when he is hungry, tired, overstressed, or bored. We can recognize whether he needs to go potty, when he needs to be held, or whether he needs to be given attention in other ways. I can often tell that my son needs a nap even though he says he is not tired. I lie down beside him, maybe read him a story, perhaps rub his back or nurse him, and within minutes this child who said he was not tired is fast asleep.

    As a child grows and develops, we can sense when he is ready for various new steps. We do not force these steps, but we are active in leading and encouraging change and progress as the child shows readiness and capabilities for these changes. We do not expect a child to learn to walk, use the toilet, or ride a bike totally on his own. We give him help and encouragement and teach him the skills he needs to use while we lead him gently step by step. It would be cruel to just say "you're on your own kid and you have to learn how to do this by yourself," without offering our encouragement and support along the way.

    Some people mistakenly think that baby-led weaning does not include substituting, limiting, or encouraging the weaning process in any way. Yet when we do things to encourage walking, or buy special panties for toilet learning, or become involved in leading the way for other stages of growth, we can see that we are doing the right thing as long as we keep in mind the capability of the child and always consider his feelings.

    Considering and validating children's feelings does not always mean that they should do everything their own way. This touches on the topic of loving guidance as well as baby-led weaning. Perhaps that's why both subjects are often misinterpreted.

    As a child grows from baby to toddler to child, we do limit many things, out of necessity, or convenience, or even personal convictions. We limit the amounts or kinds of sweets the child eats, how much television he watches and which shows he is allowed to see, how far from the yard he may go, with whom he can play, whether or not we nurse at grandma's or the shopping mall, etc. The child may be happy to go along with some of these restrictions and not happy about others. Sometimes we make exceptions, depending on the circumstances, and sometimes we stick to our limits. We keep the feelings of the child in mind, but we do not necessarily give in just because the child does not like our restrictions. Some may think that setting limits should not apply to nursing, just as we would not limit the number of kisses, or hugs, or "I love you's" we give to our children. But when a mother is feeling frustrated by nursing a three- or four-year-old, particularly if she is tandem nursing, there should be freedom to do some limiting without feeling guilty or feeling that this is somehow going against LLL philosophy. If your toddler wants to nurse all day long or every time the baby does, it may be up to you to change that pattern, for your benefit as well as the child's. We as mothers may be the ones who set up certain nursing patterns in our toddlers. Recognizing these and taking steps to change them does not mean mother-led weaning either. What it means is that we have recognized where changes can be made, substitutions can be offered, or attention can be given in ways besides nursing without denying the child's feelings. This is usually possible with children over the age of two or three who are able to understand and communicate more.
    Last edited by @llli*lsksam; July 22nd, 2008 at 09:41 AM. Reason: formatting
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  4. #34
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    Default Re: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

    Lynn thanks for posting that. I've never been too literal with my interpretation of DODR. It would seem to me that it's not active motherled at all. I've always read it as child-led, meaning, they will ask if and when they need it and I will not refuse at that time.

    Thanks for posting the link and the quote as it provides for individual adjustment and interpretation.

    Mama to my little Diva: Miss K (7/15/06)
    And her little sister: Lulu Pie (3/21/09)

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  5. #35
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    Default Re: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

    LLLI concept policy statements

    Weaning

    Natural weaning is the gradual end of the breastfeeding relationship between a responsive mother and her growing child.

    As the child matures, his changing physical and emotional needs are increasingly satisfied through means other than breastfeeding.

    Although the child usually initiates natural weaning, the mother continues to take an active role by determining in each situation whether nursing or some other approach will best meet her child’s needs.

    A mother demonstrates her commitment to natural weaning through her sensitivity to her child’s individual needs and readiness; her flexibility in responding to the unpredictable course of natural weaning and her
    understanding of and trust in the fundamental stages of a child’s development.
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  6. #36
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    Default Re: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mothersky View Post
    Lynn thanks for posting that. I've never been too literal with my interpretation of DODR. It would seem to me that it's not active motherled at all. I've always read it as child-led, meaning, they will ask if and when they need it and I will not refuse at that time.
    I think one area of difference in interpreting DODR is in what the mother considers to be "asking." For example, some moms might consider Brittan's examples to be "asking" to nurse even though the child doesn't verbally ask or try to pull her shirt off.

    Weaning

    Natural weaning is the gradual end of the breastfeeding relationship between a responsive mother and her growing child.

    As the child matures, his changing physical and emotional needs are increasingly satisfied through means other than breastfeeding.

    Although the child usually initiates natural weaning, the mother continues to take an active role by determining in each situation whether nursing or some other approach will best meet her child’s needs.

    A mother demonstrates her commitment to natural weaning through her sensitivity to her child’s individual needs and readiness; her flexibility in responding to the unpredictable course of natural weaning and her
    understanding of and trust in the fundamental stages of a child’s development.
    I like this.

    As a general comment, I think there is a tendency to get caught up too much in definitions. I don't think there are useful technical definitions of MLW and CLW. I hereby anoint a new term: Dyad-led Weaning = DLW.

    ETA: I never really practiced DODR. Sometimes I offer and sometimes I refuse.

    Molly

    Loving mama to JP (DS, 1/03 ~ nursed 6 mos), EL (DD1, 9/05 ~ nursed 4 yrs), EJ (DD2, 3/08 ~ nursed 3 yrs 9 mos), and
    JM (DD3, 6/12 ~ currently nursing), all born naturally
    Devoted wife to SAHD P, my hero
    A few of my favorite things that I've discovered on the forum: co-sleeping, baby-wearing, tandem nursing, baby-led solids, cloth diapering, APing, selective vaccination...the list goes on

  7. #37
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    Default Re: thoughts on "don't offer, don't refuse"

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mollyb View Post
    As a general comment, I think there is a tendency to get caught up too much in definitions.
    Absolutely. I try to just do what I feel is right using techniques I pick up here and elsewhere as general guidelines. But I use my gut and my daughter's reaction more to determine what to do in any specific situation.
    “We are not put on earth for ourselves, but are placed here for each other. If you are there always for others, then in time of need, someone will be there for you.”
    --Anonymous

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