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Thread: Need Info about OS for ped...

  1. #1

    Default Need Info about OS for ped...

    We went to our sons 12 month check up today and were accidentally scheduled with a different doc. I'll try to make a long story short...

    My son is pretty small (he weighed in at 16lbs 1oz today) and we've been watching his weight with our usual doc all year who after tests just believes that's how he is and that he's healthy.

    Well like I mentioned she had us get some blood work done on my ds when he was about 2 months old to make sure he didn't have any underlying problems. Everything came back fine except for the liver results. The count for the liver was higher than normal but NOT SO high to cause serious concern.

    Well, the same day we received the 1st blood work results we learned that we were dealing with OS from a midwife who I spoke with and she also mentioned that the OS could be causing his liver to overwork which in turn caused the numbers to be above normal. I told our ped about our findings and how block feeding had drastically changed his poopy diapers. She seemed to somewhat agree and had us do another test two weeks later to make sure. Well sure enough, the test came back better although not completely back to normal. She didn't recommend having another test done so I assumed we had fixed the problem and I truly believe that the OS was the problem so we just pretty much left it at that.

    SO, today like I said, we meet with another ped that's in the same practice and him and I got into a somewhat heated "discussion" about whether or not OS could cause the liver "problems" or not.

    First of all, he said he'd never heard of such thing as OS or foremilk/hindmilk imbalance and pretty much laughed at me mentioning it (like I made it up or something). I told him how as soon as I started managing my sons feedings by block feeding his poops change drastically (from 6-8 watery green per day to 3-5 orange/brown firmer poops per day). He just kept saying "well I've never seen any research on that" or "how could too much lactose affect his liver" and "color doesn't mean anything". He also mentioned that he'd love to speak with the midwife I got my info from and he seems to think it's just her opinion and there's no proof.

    ANYWAY, so much for making that short I guess, lol. He told me he'd loved for me to produce any evidence or research on this and I told him I'd love too as well! So, although I've done much research on my own and experienced it for myself, I cannot seem to find much "scientific" info. So I guess I'm mainly asking if anyone out there has or knows where I can find any info. THANKS so much for any help!!!

    Oh and just fyi, we are going to do another test tomorrow just to see. The ped today said he really thinks their is something wrong. I hope not but I'm not really worried, my lo is developmentally above average and VERY active and full of life! If he had a liver issue wouldn't their be very clear symptoms??

    Okay, I'll get of my soap box now... Thanks SO much for listening!!!
    Nikki

    Wife to my best friend and mommy to our sweet little man born 4/07!

    Still 'ing and loving life! We cloth!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    106

    Default Re: Need Info about OS for ped...

    It's amazing how clueless Pedi can be. I take LO to a practice with more than one doc also. When I switched LO from formula to bm via bottle, I was concerned because he ate so much less volume. I called and asked, got a different doc, and he stated he had no idea why baby would do that.

    Stupid - bm is more nutritious and he didn't need as much. Luckily our regular doc has more sense.

    I don't know if you could consider this scientific or not, or if it is what you are looking for, but maybe this would help? This is in my bf book by Dr. William Sears and wife Martha Sears RN. "The Breastfeeding Book" copyright 2000 from the Sears Parenting Library. ( I got it at Babies R Us)

    This is from the excert on Colic (aka the hurting baby) pg 66

    Some babies feed so fast and switch from breast to breast so soon that they fill up on foremilk before they get the high-fat hindmilk. These babies take in enough foremilk to provide the calories they need, but foremilk contains higher concentrations of lactose. If the amount of lactose that arrives in the intestines is greater than the ability of the intestines to digest it, the excess lactose ferments, causing gas, bloating, watery, explosive, greenish bowel movements, (this blowout may even occur during feedings), and a sore, red rash around the anus. This is enougth to make anybody complain. These babies are not strictly speaking lactose intolerant; it's really more a case of lactose overload. To correct the situation, mothers should feed baby on one breast until he seems satisfied and decides to come off the breast by himself. Then offer the second side for howerver long baby is interested. In some cases this problem can be due to an oversupply of milk. Try keeping baby feeding at one breast only for a period of two to three hours, the switch to the other side for the next two to three hours. Soon your supply should settle down to match baby's needs.

    This excert is from a section on bowel movements, pg 49 (Even though baby is not lacking in dirty diapers, this shows how too much foremilk, not enough hindmilk, can slow weight gain due to lack of calories.)

    If baby's stools continue to be scant, dark, or infrequent, baby may not be getting enough milk. By getting enough milk, we mean both getting enough volume and getting enough calories. Some babies get enough milk to keep them hydrated, but don't nurse long enough or well enough to trigger mother's milk-ejection reflex, which brings them the creamier, high-calorie hindmilk. Babies who don't get enough calories (the creamier hind-milk) may still have a good urine output and appear adequately hydrated (the membranes of their eyes and mouth will be wet), but their weight gain will be poor, their skin will feel loose, and they will act unsatisfied.

    Maybe this will be helpful. I know there is a good article here on this website if you go to search and put in "How to reduce breast milk supply" It talks about oversupply and foremilk/hindmilk inbalances and block feeding. Haven't seen anything specifically about the liver, but maybe this will help you out. I have OS also, maybe not quite as severe. Good luck!
    Last edited by HeatherZ; May 1st, 2008 at 07:32 AM. Reason: sp

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    157

    Default Re: Need Info about OS for ped...

    Alright, I'm mad now. What's with there being so many drs that still don't have a CLUE about BF? In my BF class at the hospital, they said Drs only spend about 1 hour in school discussing/learning about BF! I wonder if that's really true? All I know is right now, WE have to be their educators! UGH!

    Okay, besides my own personal experience (total change in poopy diapers - which does matter!), I can't find tons of "medical research", but a google search of foremilk hindmilk reveals these sites:

    http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/fo...-hindmilk.html

    http://www.breastfeed-essentials.com/toomuchmilk.html

    http://parenting.ivillage.com/newbor...,,40wl,00.html

    http://www.users.qwest.net/~fsdebra1/refluxoal.html

    http://www.llli.org/FAQ/foremilk.html

    http://www.llli.org/FAQ/oversupply.html

    http://www.mother-2-mother.com/motherconcerns.htm

    http://www.drpaul.com/breastfeeding/colostrum.html

    http://www.breastfeedingbasics.com/h...ersupply.shtml

    Oh, that's just the first 10 pages. Why is he acting like this doesn't exist? I'd be printing pages out and taking them to him.

    Sorry, I don't know much about the liver counts being off. If you're not worried, I would trust your first pedi since at least they have a CLUE about BF!

    I gotta go cool off.....

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    2,178

    Default Re: Need Info about OS for ped...

    Quote Originally Posted by nms327 View Post
    First of all, he said he'd never heard of such thing as OS or foremilk/hindmilk imbalance and pretty much laughed at me mentioning it (like I made it up or something). I told him how as soon as I started managing my sons feedings by block feeding his poops change drastically (from 6-8 watery green per day to 3-5 orange/brown firmer poops per day). He just kept saying "well I've never seen any research on that" or "how could too much lactose affect his liver" and "color doesn't mean anything". He also mentioned that he'd love to speak with the midwife I got my info from and he seems to think it's just her opinion and there's no proof.
    Then he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about! I dealt with oversupply and OALD with both of my boys, and there is PLENTY of info out there about it. I'm guessing that during the LESS than 8 hours of training he got in breastfeeding he spaced out during the part about oversupply, if it was even mentioned.

    FWIW, when I was having huge problems when DS#1 was a baby, and DS was having diarhea and green watery very explosive poos, she told me that there was nothing wrong with the color and said it was probably something I ate. Honestly, she totally blew me off, even though every one of his poos was EXPLOSIVE, and you had to really hurry up and get another diaper on because it would just come flying out at you. He was like that for several months, until I found LaLeche league and figured out the problem, and ended up block feeding and nursing him from only the breast directly.

    So maybe my ped and that one went to the same med school...I think mine went to the U of Iowa.....

  5. #5

    Default Re: Need Info about OS for ped...

    Thanks for the info... he asked me for any but I doubt he's actually expecting me to produce anything legit. Well I will give it to him at our next visit!!

    Thanks again!!
    Nikki

    Wife to my best friend and mommy to our sweet little man born 4/07!

    Still 'ing and loving life! We cloth!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Not around here as much :(
    Posts
    12,132

    Default Re: Need Info about OS for ped...

    I would bring something but wouldn't expect it to do any good - if he continues to be disrespectful, I'd leave the practice or demand another doc ( and never see him again) and file a complaint as well

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