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Thread: Very close to giving in!!

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    833

    Default Re: maybe a silly question

    Quote Originally Posted by Gracesmom View Post
    Okay I know new babies (Grace is 9 days old) sleep a lot, and maybe I just have a good baby but she does sleep ALOT . How do I know that she is not "failing to thrive" because of malnourishment? If she was malnourished wouldn't she be crying all of the time?
    Well, no actually. Babies can become lethargic if they're not getting enough to eat. But, newborns do sleep quite a bit. The way you can tell if she's getting enough is by counting her diapers. At her age she should be having a minimum of 6 very wet diapers per day plus several poopy ones. The urine should be clear not dark. It it's coming out, it's going in!

    But that whole sleep discussion brought me to another thought-- is she waking up extremely hungry? If that's the case then maybe staying one step ahead of her by waking her after a certain amount of time has passed since the last feed would keep her from getting to frantic when she wakes up. Just an idea.

    She does have wet diapers and bowel movements throughout the day, I have not counted the wets but we havn't ever had a dry diaper even if she doesn't cry to complain of being wet.
    Just count them tomorrow, I bet you'll be reassured by the numbers. You're not being neurotic, you're just being a concerned mama!

    Also, does breast milk production vary by day? Yesterday by the end of the day I had pumped 3 oz today I barely have over an ounce (still just a few more pumping sessions left in the day)
    Pumping isn't a very good way to tell how much milk you're making. Are you pumping for some particular reason? Are you able to stop for a while?

    And how do know if I am having trouble with my milk coming in? I never have felt engorged...the closest I feel is some hardness of my breasts and some mild tingling in my nipples around the time of feeding....I have yet to feel what a "let down" feels like too....
    If the diaper count is good, then you're doing fine. Some women never get painfully engorged (LUCKY!!!) and what you described sounds like letdown to me!
    Erin (32), breastfeeding CLW, knitting cloth-diapering crocheting, heirloom tomato-growing philosophizing poker-playing feminist artist mama to my 19 month old daughter! Baby #2 due January 2009.


  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    779

    Default Re: Very close to giving in!!

    Sorry you're feeling this way I know how you're feeling, since during those early weeks I too felt life would be easier if I would just give my baby formula.

    Here are my thoughts...

    Maybe she's not ready to eat every 2 hours, so wait until she shows the hunger signs..bringing her hands to her mouth, rooting...then put her on. Don't wait until she's hungry since that will make latching tougher. 2-3 hours feeding are textbook like. Some babies will want to eat before 2 or after.

    Before you start nursing put some warm cloths on your breasts to get the milk flowing. Even though she's only gotten a few bottles, babies are smart and will get use to the flow of bottle..it's quick and doesn't require as much work as the breast. Many facial muscles are at work when a baby is breastfeeding, so they get more tired and will refuse the breast when it doesn't flow as quick as the bottle.

    Also try lying down in bed with her. I've read some good stuff about skin to skin contact when babies are giving their moms are hard time with latching on. She'll smell your milk and be more likely to begin sucking this way. Put her on your belly and let her find your breast. You can help her out by pushing her up a little. You can also lay on your side and bring her close to you.

    Keep coming back for support. BFding requires work in the beginning, but it gets easier. You're doing great
    Mom to Colin Robert - Born on January 28, 2007

    Check out my website:
    www.nycbreastfeeding.com

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    6

    Default Spoke with a lactation consultant

    I finally made the call to the lactation consultant after another night of difficult feeds 6-10pm. I am very willing to breastfeed but was concerened about a "no pacifiers no bottles ever" type of philosophy. I am not saying I want to give bottles all the time, but if I have to give one a day of breast milk I didn't want to feel badly and cannot see how that can "undo" the other 9 or so feedings that have been purely breast.
    Her advice was to first check my milk production for 24 hours. Instead of feeding her by breast every 2 hours, I will feed her my pumped milk through a bottle and measure the amount that I can pump in 15 minutes with dual pumping. This will give us a gage of if I am producing enough for her. The amount I collect while pumping is given to her at her next feeding. It sounds like a plan to me but of course now I am concerned that after a day she is not going to want to go to the breast at all. Has anyone ever taken this 1 day rest?
    Plus, the 15 minutes of pumping swells my nipples immensely. Is this going to cause more pain when I put her back to the breast?

  4. #24
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    Jan 2006
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    18,063

    Default Re: Very close to giving in!!

    one day shouldn't hurt but heres the thing if the baby is healthy and removing milk well she is going to remove milk beter then the pump.
    I'll go back and read the rest of the post and see If I can see anything else that would help..
    are you counting diapars?
    thats a beter way to knowt hat baby is getting the milk they need.
    Last edited by andrea_ohio; March 23rd, 2008 at 02:14 PM.

  5. #25
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    Jun 2006
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    Default Re: Spoke with a lactation consultant

    Quote Originally Posted by Gracesmom View Post
    I finally made the call to the lactation consultant after another night of difficult feeds 6-10pm. I am very willing to breastfeed but was concerened about a "no pacifiers no bottles ever" type of philosophy. I am not saying I want to give bottles all the time, but if I have to give one a day of breast milk I didn't want to feel badly and cannot see how that can "undo" the other 9 or so feedings that have been purely breast.
    Her advice was to first check my milk production for 24 hours. Instead of feeding her by breast every 2 hours, I will feed her my pumped milk through a bottle and measure the amount that I can pump in 15 minutes with dual pumping. This will give us a gage of if I am producing enough for her. The amount I collect while pumping is given to her at her next feeding. It sounds like a plan to me but of course now I am concerned that after a day she is not going to want to go to the breast at all. Has anyone ever taken this 1 day rest?
    Plus, the 15 minutes of pumping swells my nipples immensely. Is this going to cause more pain when I put her back to the breast?
    I have to say I am quite alarmed at the advice I am seeing from LC's on this top board this week. Again, I am inclined to ask if the person who is giving you this advice is an IBCLC? Or just a LC? Because it's a pretty well known fact that pumps are not very good gages of what a new mother produces and that the child will ALWAYS extract milk better than the pump.
    Also I don't know about "No bottles or Paci's EVER" or where you heard that. The issue is in the 1st few weeks of life. Generally the rule of thumb is you don't want to introduce a bottle until between the 4-6week point. And what can be "undone" is simply that they learning to breastfeed if you introduce a bottle the child can learn that there is an EASIER way to get the food and begin to reject your breast entirely. I personally am not against bottled breastmilk. I pumped one bottle a day and a small freezer stash so that my DH could feed the baby in the evening and on the weekends. This was part of our families routine for most of the 1st year and worked very well for our family. But I waited until week 5 to start pump and week 6 to introduce the bottle. Breast feeding is WORK. Work you want to make sure you child is willing and able to do before introducing the bottle. Because frankly while exclusive pumping can be done, it's double the work. Maybe more. As a new mother who is already exhausted, why add extra work to the mix?
    Diaper out put is the answer. If you are getting at least 6wet diapers a day you are doing fine. Honestly, it sounds like you are really doing OK. All that is likely to happen if you pump for 24 hours is your nipples will hurt, you will get less than your child would if directly at your breast creating further doubt and your child will have nothing but food the easy way for a whole 24hour period of time. Not to mention you will be more tired. I expect a LC consultant to know all of that. You have gotten a ton of really good advice here. From women who have been exactly where you are. You really are producing enough milk for your baby. Believe it. Some babies just get fussy during the evenings. The hours you discussed problems are often known as "the witching hour". That is about fussy babies in the evenings. I know it's hard when you can't calm your child for long periods of time. But it's not because you are failing. You aren't. This too shall pass.

    Way too lazy for formula

  6. #26
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    Jan 2006
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    18,063

    Default Re: Very close to giving in!!

    I agree to it doesn't sound like very good advice to me...
    have you talked to your local LLL leader?
    She free.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    6

    Default Re: Very close to giving in!!

    I am glad to hear that although you dont necessarily agree with the advice it isnt really thought that my little one will reject the breast after 1 day of this process.
    And I may have mispoke about "no bottles/paci forever" but I did mean even in the first weeks. Grace barely gets any of these items so I wasnt concerned that she would be confused by the nipples.
    I think the goal of the pumping is not to check my production per se but to get my production to where it should be and making sure my milk has in fact come in. I am finding I can pump within a half ounce so far (3 feeds) of what Grace is taking in and that in itself is reassuring to me in that I know I have the capablity of giving her what she needs. If she is a lazy sucker or impatient then we can address that battle with this information. I hope at least...we'll see!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    833

    Default Re: Very close to giving in!!

    I agree with andrea_ohio and DJ's Mom-- that advice to pump and bottle-feed for 24 hours is well I don't know what else to say, it's just plain bad advice!!!!! Pumping is an awful way to tell how much milk you have. The only good way to tell is by counting the diapers and monitoring weight gain. To tell someone sight unseen, over the phone, to take their newborn off the breast for 24 hours to check milk production by pumping is incomprehensible. It's useless and downright dangerous advice.

    I know it's hard to think about going 4-6 weeks without missing a single feeding, but it's less effort than fixing the problems that can come from introducing a bottle too early. Plus it's necessary to pump when a bottle-feeding is given so that's not even such a fabulous break in the end.

    It's obviously your choice if you want to keep using some bottles sooner than recommended. Just so long as you understand that there are risks to doing that. It can do things like make latching more difficult, more painful for you, cause the baby to stop getting milk well (resulting in super-long feedings but still poor intake), make baby fussy at the breast, or even cause your baby to suddenly refuse to nurse. I've heard of this happening to many different mothers, and there's no "safe" number of bottles to introduce early. For some babies problems can show up after just one bottle given too soon. Others try the bottles a few times and think they're safe only to suddenly end up with a million problems. There's a reason the breastfeeding experts say to wait. It's not a philosophy that was made up because the experts just feel snobby about bottles or something. It's sound practical advice for those who want nursing to start as smoothly and safely as possible.

    If your baby is given bottles too early, before he learns to breastfeed well, he may be at risk for nipple confusion which may in turn put your milk supply at risk for never becoming fully established and result in your baby's frustration at and perhaps rejection of the breast.

    During breastfeeding a baby's tongue, jaw, and mouth work together in a coordinated rhythm. This unique sucking action is one reason why breastfed babies overall have better oral development than bottlefed babies. Once the baby latches on, the tongue comes down and out as it cups the breast. The lips must be flanged out resembling a rose petal or a fish's lips. Letdown can sometimes takes several seconds to perhaps more than a minute to occur. The baby learns that he does not get an instant reward; he must "work" for mother's milk.

    With bottlefeeding, the baby is instantly met with a flood of milk as a bottle will allow milk flow without active sucking. This sudden gush forces the baby to flip his tongue upward to help regulate the flow and prevent him from choking. His lips are pursed tightly around the firmer artificial nipple and no work is required of his jaws.


    One study found that 95% of babies will become confused if given a bottle during the first 3-4 weeks of life. For some babies it may take many bottles before they show any nipple confusion; for others it can take only one or two. For this reason it is best to avoid offering your baby a bottle before he is 4 weeks of age.
    from Avoiding Nipple Confusion (emphasis mine.)

    Being a "lazy sucker" or impatient with feeds can be signs that a baby is already experiencing some nipple confusion.

    Good luck to you Keep us posted..
    Erin (32), breastfeeding CLW, knitting cloth-diapering crocheting, heirloom tomato-growing philosophizing poker-playing feminist artist mama to my 19 month old daughter! Baby #2 due January 2009.


  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    SW Ohio
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    3,133

    Default Re: Very close to giving in!!

    I agree with the pp's who said that taking baby off the breast and pumping for 24 hours is a bad idea... Pump output is a VERY bad indicator of how much milk the baby can remove from the breast. And if baby's output is good, you know your milk is "in" so you shouldn't worry about that. I think focusing on feeding the baby every 1-2 hours, directly from your breast should be your primary mission...

    My DD was VERY fussy during the first ~12 weeks of her life (especially during the "witching hours")... And I think I kept her swaddled for a lot of the time which helped tremendously... Here's what I did during the daytime: When DD would fall asleep (swaddled) for a nap, I would watch her to see when she was starting to stir and wake up. (I actually held her for naps most of the time when she was very little...) When she made even the slightest sign that she was waking up, I would leave her swaddled and put her straight to my breast. By nursing her in this sleepy stage and still swaddled, she would stay calm (arms wouldn't flail about) and we could get her feeding done. Then I would unwrap her, burp her, change her diaper, play with her, and start the cycle all over again. Also, my DH knew that she would feed better if she was just waking up from a nap, and if he saw her waking (or was holding her as she napped) he would alert me immediately and ask if I wanted to feed her... just mentioning this so you can get your DH or partner on board with whatever you figure out to help with the feedings.

    The nightime feeds were similar... only I didn't change her diaper unless she had pooped, and I usually left her swaddled after her feed because she usually fell right back asleep after a nighttime feed.

    Anyway, hang in there mama, and things will get better for you... I think the ladies on this site have given you good advice.

    HTH,
    Buff
    IRL all my friends call me Buff, Wife to CB since 10/11/2003

    Mom to DD - "MJ" born 9/2007 @ 8lbs 10oz, 21.5" She's 6 years old!
    My journey nursing MJ started HERE, but we got through it and she breastfed 19.5 months, self-weaned on 5/17/09


    Mom to my current nursling, DS - "ME" born 10/2009 @ 10lbs 1oz, 22.25" He's 4 years old! And yup, he's still nursing.

    Ask me about my successful VBAC! Click here for my birth story.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    137

    Cool Re: Very close to giving in!!

    I didn't read all pp, so i may be repeating, but have you tried letting her self attach? I had a problem with nursing for a while, then i let him self attach, and now we have a better time nursing

    http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVDecJan03p123.html

    http://hospitalbirthdebate.blogspot....-hospital.html

    http://theperfectlatch.wordpress.com...ing-in-action/
    Hi there

    I'm fomally milk_milk a SAHM of Donevyn Shane

    We never get any housework done
    Thank heavens for the Daddy

    We're back to , with the crib attached as a side care... Hooray! He sleeps through the night this way!



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