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Thread: how much is enough?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    8,272

    Default how much is enough?

    My DS (14.5 mo) was recently diagnosed with allergies to cow milk / egg / tree nuts / sesame. After he turned 12 mo I has originally planned to transition DS over to cow milk while he's at preschool so I could pump wean (stop pumping at work) and continue to nurse DS when we are together. With DS allergies that's clearly not going to work

    DS is also very very tiny (was 16 lbs 6 oz at 12 mo) and I think needs the calories from breastmilk so I have been terrified to cut back on DS breastmilk intake and have been continuing to pump and send EBM in sippy cups with him to day care. Right now he is drinking maybe 3 oz EBM at day care (I send in 6 oz). He seems to be cluster feeding in the mornings and evening as well as nursing 1 - 2 times overnight, and getting by ok without drinking much during the day. I try to send juicy fruits (grapes, etc) so he'll get some fluid intake from those foods.

    Since DS isn't drinking very much EBM at day care, I'm very tempted to pump wean (for purely selfish reasons because I'm tired of pumping), use up the rest of my freezer stash of EBM for day care, and then transition DS over to drinking rice milk at day care. I'm having a hard time getting excited about pumping when DS is only drinking at most 3 oz EBM and the rest gets tossed.

    The only resource I've seen on how much breastmilk is enough to meet a toddler's dietary needs for calcium and fat (such as how many nursing sessions) is the kellymom.com page on nutrition for nursing toddlers.

    Our challenge is that DS can't eat ANY dairy, and is also allergic to many of the foods listed as good sources of calcium & fats (eggs, tree nuts, peanuts, all seeds) or doesn't like the food.

    Thoughts and additional references / links on how much breastmilk is enough for a toddler's nutritional needs?

    Thanks!
    Lynn
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    2,866

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    For toddlers, it's considered to be four feedings a day. In the situation you described, though, it would most likely be different. He's taking in about 6 "servings" of bm a day, right?

    BTW, it sounds like you have a great plan re: pump weaning!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    8,272

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by home executive View Post
    He's taking in about 6 "servings" of bm a day, right?
    At least!

    Today's nursing (which is pretty typical) was:
    2 am
    6:15 am
    7:45 am
    2 oz at preschool
    4:15 pm
    6:30 pm
    7:15 pm
    8:15 pm

    Some of those were short "snacks", but at least 5 were long sessions. At night and at bedtime DS will take both sides. Tonight at bedtime he "asked" for left, then right, then left again. I really should be asleep because DS will probably wake again soon wanting to nurse.

    We're trying to find a dietitian, but it's a bit challenging finding someone who works with breastfeeding toddlers with food allergies.

    I'm down to a single pumping session - basically pumping enough for the next day at preschool (I send in 6 oz).
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    8,272

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mummy View Post
    Can you send in less milk so none gets wasted?
    I send in 3 sippy cups each with 2 oz. The preschool is very great about me sending in EBM, but they want all the EBM sent ready to serve and each sippy cup can only be used once. So if they offer sippy cup #1 at the morning snack and DS doesn't drink any, all the EBM in sippy cup #1 will end up getting tossed (they put it back in DS bag and I toss it when we get home).
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    309

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    Hi,
    I can't really answer the question, but wanted to empathise, as we're in a similar situation. My younger son (2 years) is allergic to dairy, nuts, seeds, lentils, fish and peppers.
    I pumped regularly until he was around 20 months, then stopped. Partly because I was fed up of it, and partly because he wasn't drinking it anyway. I still pump occasionally, if I'm away for a long time, but that is as much for my comfort as anything. I use the ebm in cooking generally.
    He drinks plenty of water when we're apart, and likes orange juice too. He nurses around 6 times a day on average - first thing in the morning, when I get home from work, once in the evening, prior to bed and twice through the night. So I think he should be getting enough. He has never taken to any other types of milk, but he does like soy yoghurts, so I give them quite regularly.
    I know how you feel. It's hard when you read the list of alternatives and you can't give them, or your baby won't eat them. Mine are not keen on green vegetables, but I do manage to "hide" vegetables in other foods, and they love vegetable soups so I get the dark green veg in that way.
    Sorry, not really any good advice to offer, but just wanted to send a

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    8,272

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    Quote Originally Posted by home executive View Post
    For toddlers, it's considered to be four feedings a day. In the situation you described, though, it would most likely be different. He's taking in about 6 "servings" of bm a day, right?

    BTW, it sounds like you have a great plan re: pump weaning!
    Thanks home executive! I was wondering if you have a reference for the "four feedings a day"?

    The only reference I've seen is the kellymom.com page on toddler nutrition, and I don't think that cites sources.

    Thanks -
    Lynn
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    1,197

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    I have read in one of the threads that you can make yogurt with BM. (I don't remember if they were using a yogurt making machine or not.) If your son likes yogurt maybe you can try that and send mom-yogurt instead of BM to the preschool? Not a solution for pump-weaning but it may be a solution for the waste of EBM and can be good for more weight gain.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    8,272

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    Ugh - I just met with a dietitian and I confess that I don't at all like what she had to say. I described a typical food / breastfeeding day for DS (which currently includes breastfeeding about 6 times a day including 2 nighttime sessions).

    Her response is that she can't quantify how much breastmilk DS is getting or how many nutrients DS is getting from breastmilk so she wants me to get DS to drink 12 oz fortified soy milk a day and drop to 2 or 3 breastfeeding sessions (morning, night & nap when DS is at home). I got the "after one breastfeeding is mostly for comfort" line which doesn't fit with what I've read from pro-breastfeeding sources. She wants DS to drink soy milk for the calcium & protein.

    Since DS isn't drinking more than about 3 oz of the EBM that I send to preschool I'm more than happy to taper off pumping and send in soy milk for him to drink while at preschool. I'm not so pleased with the idea of replacing 3 nursing sessions with soy milk. And I'm really not at all excited about dumping the rest of my frozen EBM stash.

    Now I'm more confused ....
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,307

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    I have no advice for your situation. I just get annoyed that I cannot find get consistent info or find a site for how much either! My DD is younger than yours, but she was (still is some days) eating 3 5 ounce bottles at daycare on top of nursing at home. I had one LC tell me to let her have as much as she wants - you can't over feed a bf baby. I had another LC (from the same place) tell me that she was having too much milk and that I should get her down to one or two bottles at daycare.
    Mom to Lainey (11-8-06)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Alberta, Canda
    Posts
    319

    Default Re: how much is enough?

    The recommendations of your dietian doesn't seem right to me. Have you read Kelly Mom's Extended Breastfeeding Fact Sheet? The second point under "Nursing toddlers benefit NUTRITIONALLY" is that your milk increases in fat and energy if you nurse longer than a year.
    Amanda Wife to my wonderful husband 06_98
    Breastfeeding, Sling Wearing, Co-sleeping, Cloth Diapering Mom to my Intact Boys
    DS #1 - 02_02 BF'ed for 9 Months and
    DS #2 - 10_06 Currently BF'ed 22 Months and still going.

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