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Thread: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

  1. #1
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    Jul 2007
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    Default Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Hi,
    My baby was born by c/s after 12 hours of labor not progressing due to a face presentation. Her face was all swollen when she came out. She didn't latch when we tried to breastfeed because she wouldn't open her mouth very far (probably hurt) and had a problem keeping her tongue down. After some very aggressive efforts by a LC (forcing jaw open, pressing back of head to bring baby to breast), baby learned to HATE the breast. Would not even take a shield. I never got her to breastfeed, and I've tried everything I could (skin to skin, rebirthing in the tub, co-sleeping topless, babywearing, infant massage, you name it) but she would still scream and turn away from the breast.
    She is now two months old (11 weeks) and I've been exclusively pumping and feeding with bottles. I pump 60-65 oz. of breast milk per day. I have continued to offer the breast several times a day, but no luck. Recently I tried the shield again and she took it, nursing for about 5 minutes. I was so excited! I've been offering the shield before and during feedings with the bottle, trying to gradually increase time feeding from the shield. Often she cries and turns away, but more and more she will feed from the shield. So we are making progress. However I fear that we will never be able to exclusively go to the shield and not pump/use bottles because I don't think she is getting enough through the shield. If she nurses for 20 minutes with the shield, she will still take 4 oz from a bottle afterwards. And if I pump right after she nurses, I can still pump 3-4 oz out of the breast she just nursed from - and it looks like foremilk comes out first, so I know she never got any hindmilk out. I'm estimating that in 20 minutes, she only got 1-2 oz of foremilk. Is there a trick to using the shield so that I can exclusively breastfeed with it? I'm trying to decrease my supply by not pumping till empty. I pump every 5 hours and stop at about 10oz. so I'm reducing my supply to 50 oz. per day.
    In 20 minutes, I can pump out a breast, so you would think she would be getting full if she feeds that long. I feel multiple let downs when she feeds as well as a "pins and needles" feeling down my thigh and up my chest, neck and face on the side she is nursing on.
    If I can get her adequately fed using a shield, then the next step would be to try to wean her off the shield and onto naked nipple.
    Can anyone tell me why it's not working?
    Thank you!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Firstly how many wet diapers does baby have during a 24 hour period?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    I use a nipple shield. I do not think there is any trick to it. Just make sure it is properly centered and baby does not knock it out of place when latching on. Maybe your baby is just a slow nurser? When my DD (who is now 8 months) was around the age of your lo she would nurse for what seemed like forever . They eat much faster from a bottle then while nursing. I would just keep her on the shield until she stops eating, whether it is 20 minutes or 50 minutes. The older your lo gets, the more efficient she will get at bf.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Lots. And several good poops during the day too. But she is still being fed expressed breast milk via bottle until I know she is getting enough milk through the shield. I gotta get the shield thing figured out before I can just feed her that way.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    She detaches herself after 20 minutes like she is frustrated and wants her bottle. You think it's just a practice thing?
    It *feels* like she is sucking hard enough, but you think she might not be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lainey's Mom View Post
    I use a nipple shield. I do not think there is any trick to it. Just make sure it is properly centered and baby does not knock it out of place when latching on. Maybe your baby is just a slow nurser? When my DD (who is now 8 months) was around the age of your lo she would nurse for what seemed like forever . They eat much faster from a bottle then while nursing. I would just keep her on the shield until she stops eating, whether it is 20 minutes or 50 minutes. The older your lo gets, the more efficient she will get at bf.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Some words of encouragement, you can do it. It seems impossible while you are going through it and frustration cant even begin to describe how you feel. Did you ever think she would even take to the breast shield..probably not but she did and I think in time she will take to exclusively the shield and then maybe your next issue will be weaning off of that. I am enduring a similar experience and was at the end of my rope, thinking pumping was the only thing I would be able to do for the next 10 months(my little girl was born may 9)She had a bad case of breast aversion/nipple confusion whatever you want to call it. I gave up in my head so many times. It was finding the support on this website that has been most helpful. My little one still gets frustrated on the breast but this am I took a deep breath(after giving her an ounce from a bottle) and Literally asked for help from above. she ate and for this feeding she is full. One feeding at a time. I'm positive if you keep up your persistence and make time at the breast as relaxing as possible you can do it. GOOD LUCK

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Quote Originally Posted by RaensMom View Post
    She is now two months old (11 weeks)
    I pump 60-65 oz. of breast milk per day.

    I don't think she is getting enough through the shield. If she nurses for 20 minutes with the shield, she will still take 4 oz from a bottle afterwards.
    Is there a trick to using the shield so that I can exclusively breastfeed with it? I'm trying to decrease my supply by not pumping till empty. I pump every 5 hours and stop at about 10oz. so I'm reducing my supply to 50 oz. per day.
    In 20 minutes, I can pump out a breast, so you would think she would be getting full if she feeds that long. I feel multiple let downs when she feeds as well as a "pins and needles" feeling down my thigh and up my chest, neck and face on the side she is nursing on.
    If I can get her adequately fed using a shield, then the next step would be to try to wean her off the shield and onto naked nipple.
    Can anyone tell me why it's not working?
    Thank you!
    My thoughts are that it is working! Using pumping as a reference to how much baby is getting is often inaccurate. Babies use compression and sucking, something no pump is able to do. Thats why I asked about the wet diapers. Between 5-6 wet disposables mean baby is getting enough milk. Any thing over that is just great! I am guessing that your concern over the welfare of your child is leading you to doubt your breastfeeding relationship, and I can understand that. It is normal for babies to seek reassurance through sucking and even a full baby will accept a bottle if its offered. It can be really misleading when you are worried your baby isn't getting enough milk. Just for an idea of normal nursing duration in a single sitting, I will use myself as an example. At 3 months, William went through his largest growth spurt and grew over two inches in ten days. He did marathon nursing sessions of two hours at a time ( called cluster feeding), and I had to switch him back and forth between breasts 8 times, for up to two hours each session. So with that in mind, perhaps you can view the 20 minutes and say, "Maybe she wants to nurse more for comfort or growing"! Growth spurts are typically somewhere around 3,6, 9 , 12, 16 weeks and so on.

    I think its great you found a way to lead your baby back to the breast considering the early trauma your baby experienced. I found it really disturbing that a LC would be so rough, considering that it seems obvious that you want your breastfeeding relationship to be a peaceful nurturing experience for both. A LC with IBCLC credentials has more LC education, and more work hours under her belt. Maybe you could try that? Also LLL has free bf support meetings all over and it might be a good idea to get some ideas from some Live mothers!

    So the milk you pump out after your baby nurses looks thin? This probably has to due with the sheer quantity you are producing. Hind milk is more available after the front milk is emptied. We usually suggest that a woman allow her baby to finish one breast before switching to the other side, in order to get the fattier stuff. In your case your baby would be like a water balloon afterwards if you did that; I will mention what I did when faced with a similar problem. I would pump first, not a lot, but enough to clear off the easy to remove foremilk ( around 4 ounces of it).

    If you are feeling letdowns during your nursing session your baby is getting milk, and plenty of it!

    shield weaning: I have heard that women simply trim down the nipple tip of the shield over time to get baby onto more nipple. Waiting until baby is sleepy and not entirely saturated with milk might be a good time to try offering the breast. Also I want to mention that milk is removed by the baby massaging it out, from around the areola. The shield covers this area and can slow down the speed that baby gets milk out; plan on it taking longer. You're doing just great!

    Reducing milk: You send the signal to produce more when you entirely empty the breast. Use caution when pumping after feeding baby, or don't do it then at all! Thats why I didn't suggest that you drain more foremilk out.
    Have you tried block pumping?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Kate, that is so great! She took a full feeding from you? Sweet! Do you use a shield, or have you gotten her to take your nipple?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Thanks Carpentergirl. Good info/suggestions. I'll try pumping off some of the foremilk. Nipple trimming can't be done on my shield since it's silicone. It would leave sharp edges that can cut baby's mouth.
    I've tried 3 LC's and they were all rough. I'm done with LC's. I have been to a couple LLL meetings. The moms are great and very supportive, but none of them seem to have experienced my particular situation and so can only guess at what might help.
    I'm getting the picture that my girl might just have to nurse longer and put more effort into it. Maybe it's taking time to build up her facial muscles since bottles are so much easier. I keep telling her that if she will nurse from the naked nipple, she'd have more than she can handle. Kids...they don't listen, do they!
    Block pumping? Can you say more about that?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Milk OS, but baby not getting enough through shield

    Quote Originally Posted by RaensMom View Post
    She detaches herself after 20 minutes like she is frustrated and wants her bottle. You think it's just a practice thing?
    It *feels* like she is sucking hard enough, but you think she might not be?
    It does take more effort for babies to bf than to get it from the bottle. So, it is possible she is getting frustrated because she has to work harder and is not getting it as fast as she does with the bottle. That does not mean she would not get enough if she worked at it, IYKWIM. I would keep offering her the breast. You do not want her to get too frustrated at the breast though. Try to go for longer periods of bf before offering the bottle.

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