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Thread: arg...more frustration

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    20

    Default arg...more frustration

    I'm sorry to come back with even more issues, but you all were so helpful last time I didn't know where else to turn.

    We are now doing better with the whole milk production thing..I'm pumping a couple ounces each time I pump and feel GREAT about that. The thing is that Laila is really a lazy nurser...I am not sure that she gets anything out when she is nursing...and when we use the SNS, she takes a REALLY long time to drink it down. One ounce takes her about 30 minutes or more...and she absolutely wont take more than an ounce from it at a time...

    we did so well yesterday and today has been really hard. She isn't nursing for as long, doesn't have very much awake/alert time, and hasn't had a single wet/dirty diaper today...are there some days that are better than others? Should I be freaking out again yet? The only way I can think of to get more breastmilk into her is to use a bottle and I REALLY don't want to do that. My gut says that would be the end of it all for us...

    I feel so freaking bi-polar...I was feeling GREAT yesterday.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    9,280

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    Baby's health comes first, in my opinion. If you need to give her a bottle to get fluids into her, thats what you have to do. Some people have used a cup or eye dropper to reduce the possibility of nipple confusion. I would be concerned at the lack of diapers and lethargy. Perhaps a call to your pediatrician might be a first step to take?

    30 minutes to drink one ounce seems like a long time to me. Have you had her latch evaluated by a board certified lactation consultant? Poor milk transfer can be a sign of poor latch.

    I'm sorry you're having the ups and downs. I think hormones play a big part in all of that aswell.



    Lyn
    Lyn
    Nursing the girl with kaleidoscope eyes


    Mama to Daniel (12/3/06) and Lucy Jane (8/28/08)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    N. TX
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    1,231

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    I am not sure how old your baby is but I had this issue with my newborn and it turned out he was jaundiced, causing the lethargy. I literally had to keep an ice cold wet washcloth to wipe him with to get him to wake up for a few minutes to eat, the repeated over and over again. I would call the pediatrition. The trick to jaundice/lethargy was to practically torture my sweet baby into eating, more in more out and everything cleared up. I agree with the PP that if a bottle is the only way to get milk in then it is worth it. When I was doing it I used a syringe to fill a nipple shield with milk so that when he latched on he would get an instant reward and cause him to suck on his own to draw my milk down.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    We have been to the pedi twice. We went in on Thursday and spent an hour with the lactation consultant...she gave us a nipple shield, and an SNS to use...but thought that her latch/suck were fine. We went in again on Friday (yesterday) and she had gained back 1.5 ounces. They were impressed...I'm second guessing it though wondering if it's b/c she didn't have many wet/dirty diapers by that point.

    Why does this have to be so freaking difficult?

    She spent yesterday all day awake with the exception of a few hours of napping...all awake and alert, and now today she is just sleeping all day long...are there supposed to be days like this?

    We did syringe feed her for a few days, but then her latch seemed to suffer and we stopped...

    She is 8 days old today...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    6,959

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    Some babies figure out that they just need to suck at the sns tube, how much of your areola are you getting in her mouth?

    Because you are the mama, I believe you ultimately can sense if something is wrong. A baby that old should definitely be having some wet diapers during the day.It is important because you don't want to risk dehydration. If a baby is feeling weak it can be hard to exert the energy to do a lot of sucking. I agree that trying some dropper feeding is a great starting off point. Its easy for baby to get some fluid, and will rest your mind. I would also keep my doctor apprised of the situation at this point. The rule of thumb is "feed the baby", you can work with the latch later on, right now its time for some milk.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    562

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    I'm sorry this is such a roller-coaster for you. Things can and do change VERY fast with such young babies. You are to be commended for hanging in there and for continuing to reach out for help.

    I'm especially concerned to hear that your daughter's diaper output is still scarily low.

    The diaper count is really, really, really important. Yes, newborns may have days when their sleep and eating patterns are different, but the diaper output should be fairly steady and ALWAYS at or above the minimum numbers (5-6 wet disposables, 2-3 dirties in every 24-hour period). If she's not making wet diapers EVERY DAY, she's not getting enough milk. If she's not getting enough milk, her health is at risk. This concern FAR exceeds our concern about nipple confusion or even about your milk supply.

    I understand -- I really and truly do understand! -- your fear of messing up your breastfeeding relationship with interventions. But the baby has to be eating, making diapers (at least 5-6 wet disposables and 2-3 dirties every 24-hour period), growing and thriving FIRST. Do whatever is necessary to get enough milk into her. The problems with her breastfeeding can be fixed, but not while she is dehydrated and lethargic. She needs to be fed to be strong and healthy enough to work on the breastfeeding issues.

    She was born nine days ago, right? What was her birth weight? What, when, and where (on whose scale?) were all subsequent weight checks?

    Keep her skin-to-skin against your bare chest as much as you can ... keep pumping after each feeding ... offer your EBM as a supplemental feed in whatever way will get the most milk into her ... track the diapers ... watch very closely for the other signs of dehydration that I listed in a previous post.

    You might call the ped right now and ask if they can put you in touch with his staff lactation consultant today. But really, the absolutely most critically important thing right now is to get more milk into your daughter. Please act quickly on this. Keep us posted as you have time and energy.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    107

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    I just wanted to reassure you , with my first I supplemented with a bottle and things turned out fine. Once he gained his weight and was stronger and I learned more about breastfeeding, we went straight to just breastfeeding and then he would not even take a bottle! imo, if that is what you need to do right now then do it because the most important part is your lo is eating and having a good diaper output. it doesn't necessarily guarantee nipple confusion, mine went back adn forth fine until he decided no more bottle....and plus even if it did we would have fixed that later, you know? I remember crying all the time adn feeling like an utter failure adn being so worried but i had a friend tell me that the whole point is for your lo to eat, whatever way we could.

    I think what i did if i remember is first I bf, then i offered the bottle- of formula actually but it sounds like you can pump some -until he was full. then i think you pump a little after to let your body know it needs to make more. I do not regret doing it that way at all and like i said it all turned out fine.

    let us know how you are doing
    Last edited by kwg; July 8th, 2007 at 09:47 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Posts
    301

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    I 2nd what pp said. I have been supplementing with formula now for two weeks (DD is 3 weeks old) and everything has been fine. She has been gaining weight and we still nurse. My ped wanted us to use the syringe and tube thingy but dd would not have it. I felt exactally how you do, scared to mess up with the bf, but it will work out. Do what you feel is right for your baby. Be it nurse then pump and give ebm or formula or switch every couple of feedings to the bottle. You will figure it out and when you do you will feel so good about yourself and proud of your lo. I promise

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    20

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    rebecca, She has had 3 wets to far today...and has so far been given 4 ounces of EBM today in addition to VERY minimal nursing. Those 4 ounces are more than she has had other days...but she is still sleepy a lot. Would you give her a bottle today or wait and see if we get enough wets today?
    I just don't know what to do. The nurse/LC didn't seem so worried (and also said that at this point we just need to see "some" wets and dirties, but that the numbers differ per child, she checked her over and said there were no signs of dehydration) but I am and I know that I am the mom and my gut must mean something...but I REALLY worry that this will be the end of our nursing relationship...she is taking the SNS, but it is taking her a long time to get through the ounce in there...is it OK to keep doing it that way? Or should I just jump right to the bottle now?

    She was indeed born 9 days ago...and was 6 lb 15 oz at birth...
    She went to the doctor on Thursday and was 6 lb even
    then on Friday at the same doctor shew as 6 lb and 1.5 ounces

    The nurse was very impressed with her weight gain and didn't seem worried about her latch at all (which I am REALLY suspecting is the underlying problem here). I tend to be a bit alarmast and my husband the opposite...so it's hard for me to stay sane here...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    18,063

    Default Re: arg...more frustration

    have you talked to your local leader?
    she would give you somebody to talk besides us! And your local Lc.
    Sometimes babies that are having toubles can learn to breastfeed beter once you start the bottle there are just beter ways of doing it then others.
    heres a good pdf file that might help:
    http://www.ilca.org/pubs/jhl/j18h1l10.pdf
    The bottle isn't going to be for ever! once the baby grows a little and isn't so weak she will nurse beter.

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