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Thread: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    18,063

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    awe man sorry this is so stressfull for you.
    Your following the 1st rule feed the baby!
    Have you looked up your local leader yet? She can help.
    With two babies it is going to feal like all your doing is putting baby to the breast.
    Are you sleeping when ever the babies sleep, that helps too...

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    51

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    I agree that you should try to contact your local LLL leader and see if she can help.

    One piece of advice that was helpful for me was to watch the baby, not the clock. I know the doctor was trying to help by telling you to feed on a schedule, but feeding on demand is better for building a supply. For me my baby was at the breast practically 24/7, and she was a slow gainer.

    I hope you get this worked out soon. I can tell how badly you want this to work!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    422

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cherylNJ View Post
    So things have changed since last week. At their 2 week visit, Owen lost 3 oz- down 15 oz from birth weight! and Sofia still hasn't gotten back up to birth weight. Ped recommended continuing one baby on BOTH breasts for a feeding (to keep the stimulation) while giving 2 oz formula to the other baby. Then switch who gets breast/formula for the next feeding. He said keep them on max. for 15 minutes on each breast, don't pump, and try to feed them every 2 hours in the daytime, and 3 hours at night. We were really scared about the weight loss so we fed them like this hard core all weekend.

    Today they both gained 4 oz each (1 oz/ day)!! Ped said to continue this feeding for now. My milk still seems the same, a tiny bit better since drinking Mothers milk tea 3 tmes per day, but nothing miraculous. I pumped today and got 1/2 oz from both breasts (alot for me!!) but i am thinking of adding the pumping back after each feed...at least during the day. Just for more stimulation. But that will be like 10-12 breast feedings PLUS 8-10 pumping sessions per day! that's what i was doing the first week and it didn't increase my supply at all!

    i am getting so discouraged, i feel like i am weaning them off breast by giving so much formula. I feel like soon my supply will dry up.

    Of course they are always more satisfied if they got formula rather than breast. And at night, the one that got the breast wants to suck allllll night long.

    Its taking alot out of me, i keep crying, and feel sad that i am failing. i don't have time to sit and enjoy staring at them cuz i just want to get a nap in before the next feeding! DH just went back to work today and i am all alone, its depressing and lonely.

    Cheryl:

    Congratulations on your wonderful babies! Love their names! You are doing a wonderful job getting started breastfeeding (BF) twice as many babies after what is always a more stressful pregnancy. Plus you've just had major surgery (c-section)! You're not in any way failing -- you're a tremendous success!

    As nice and big as Sofia and Owen were at birth, I don't think I've read what their gestational age was at birth. (How close to your due date was their birth date?) Because a twin pregnancy tends to be more physically stressful for all involved or result in babies being born a bit sooner/removed before it's their "idea," it's more common for one/both to be a less effective BFr for days to weeks after birth. Less effective suckling can mean less milk is made, since milk production depends on milk removal -- which is why everyone suggests pumping after BF.

    You also haven't mentioned if you had any complications during your twin pregnancy or related to birth, e.g. pre-eclampsia, etc. which may affect the timing of milk "coming in."

    How come you are home alone after major surgery? Where is some household help? No matter HOW you feed your babies, twins is twice as many newborns as the average mother/parents brings home from the hospital and that means a lot more work -- and like you that means a lot more work while recuperating from major surgery. Plus it sounds as if you had a setback with that higher temperature/infection, etc. a week or so ago, which also could have temporarily affected milk production. GET SOME HELP (yes, I'm shouting!) to take care of you/your home so you can take care of your babies! And yes, let them help you with the supplementing so you have more time to pump behind them.

    You haven't mentioned which breast pump you are using, if pump collection kit breast shield (flange) size feels "right," your routine for pumping, etc. BTW, I totally agree with others re: babies were probably taking the bulk of milk during BF so you wouldn't be seeing as much with pumping. However, recent increase to 1/1oz (15ml) with the pumping is good...

    You talked to a LC but did you see a LC and has anyone used a special digital scale to test weigh (pre and post-feeding weighing) each baby before/after BF to see how well each is transferring milk during BF?

    There are ways to supplement that can enhance BF. But if too much to think about currently, there also are ways to bottle-feed that are more likely to help the transition to more BF vs. hinder that progress. Get in touch via a personal post if more info is desired.

    There may be a "survival while increasing BF" plan that could work better for you and your babies. There's a chapter in (the newly revised and now available from LLLI) Mothering Multiples re: Making Up for a Poor Start, which probably would be helpful. I'd also suggest moving this discussion to the BF Multiples area too (and I haven't a clue how to do that).

    MANY, MANY mothers of twins have started where you are and transitioned to full or almost full breastfeeding. Often it takes more time because of pregnancy/birth issues for one/more babies and/or mother. You already ARE doing a tremendous job and they already benefit from the advantages of your milk IN ANY AMOUNT. There are ways to build to more BF while you get more recuperative rest -- even if that means more time til you achieve your goal of full BF. (But still, GET SOME HOUSEHOLD HELP in there!) Better that you move forward at a pace you can deal with then get so discouraged you chuck the whole thing!

    And while more may be better, some mother's milk and BF is far, far better than none!

    Hang in...you're doing an amazing job for your babies!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    6

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    Cheryl,
    Because of medical issues after his birth, my son was in the nursery and I was unable to breastfeed him for several days after his birth (he is now five weeks old). I pumped every hour and a half to build my supply, thanks to my lactation consultant, but was concerned that I never felt my milk "come in" the way I expected it to. Because I was pumping so frequently, I avoided the worst of engorgement, etc., but I had no supply problems, and I just wonder if that may be the case for you too? Just a thought. I know it must be hard to keep trying; I can't imagine how I would manage with two babies, and Thomas's dad is home full-time! Good luck!

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    9

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    Karen...thanks for the response.
    The twins were scheduled csection at 37 weeks 2 days.
    I had help-- dh for 2 weeks and my mom right now.
    I use a hospital grade Ameda pump. And the flange fit sounds right when the LC described it to me and checked it. But it is now back to very low milk output again...i just pump to hopefully "put the order in" and stimulate me...

    The LC at the hospital never weighed them before and after a feeding, in fact, they sort of ignored me the first few days. I only got the pump on day 2 or 3 after csection, when i read the paperwork they gave me the last day, it said i should have Started pumping the day of delivery.

    I know Owen doesn't suck as well as Sofia. but he that is exactly how he sucks the formula bottles and he gets the formula put of there with those lazy sucks...so he probably sucks my milk out too right?

  6. #26
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    Jan 2006
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    18,063

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    chery, I'm sure that Karen will check back later.
    I don't know much about week suck and such!
    I do know sometimes it just takes some babies longer to figure out breastfeeding. What kind of bottles are you using? Slow flow nipples?
    Babies are smart they figure out the bottle is alot easier then the breast.
    Just keep trying! Your doing a great job.
    Get some house hold help!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    422

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    Quote Originally Posted by cherylNJ View Post
    Karen...thanks for the response.
    The twins were scheduled csection at 37 weeks 2 days.
    I had help-- dh for 2 weeks and my mom right now.
    I use a hospital grade Ameda pump. And the flange fit sounds right when the LC described it to me and checked it. But it is now back to very low milk output again...i just pump to hopefully "put the order in" and stimulate me...

    The LC at the hospital never weighed them before and after a feeding, in fact, they sort of ignored me the first few days. I only got the pump on day 2 or 3 after csection, when i read the paperwork they gave me the last day, it said i should have Started pumping the day of delivery.

    I know Owen doesn't suck as well as Sofia. but he that is exactly how he sucks the formula bottles and he gets the formula put of there with those lazy sucks...so he probably sucks my milk out too right?


    So your babies are just hitting full-term due date about now then? I know docs love to think 37 weekers are full-term but their more subtle neuromuscular behaviors, such as coordinating suckling often aren't quite "together" at that point. Then it can take a bit longer to get them to full-term suckling because so many have had other "interfering" kinds of oral experiences at that point. But they turn around with a little extra time and feeding techniques that better reinforce breastfeeding...

    Owen's sucking isn't "lazy" -- newborns can't be lazy -- lazy is a choice! Newborns can have more immature suckling, though, which is less organized than mature suckling and results in less effective transfer of milk from the breast. As suckling matures they become more effective.

    Organized suckling is pretty business-like for at least the first 10-20 minutes, and research has shown that effectively breastfeeding babies remove/transfer the bulk of the breastmilk they're going to take within 10-19 minutes. Newborns tend to pause off and on (they get more efficient as they get older) but they still should remain alert and interested in suckling for those 10-20 min and may then continue another 10-20 min before needing to burp, get a diaper change (since they tend to poop early in a breastfeed), etc. The baby who often and quickly drifts to sleep and is difficult to stimulate again within the first few minutes of breastfeeding or the one who wants to BF "forever" (40-60 min) for most feedings and still never seems satisfied may be a less organized, less effective suckler! (Any baby may do either on occasion or during a frequency day! And older babies often "finish" a breast in 5-10 min.)

    If a baby isn't gaining, I'd suggest breastfeeding first for as many feedings as possible -- for no more than 20 or so minutes. For the sleepy baby, I'd suggest stopping by 10 min or so of stimulating baby. Then let helpers offer the expressed breastmilk or other supplement while you feed the other baby or pump. (And if Sofia is a better suckler, you may try breastfeeding her at one breast while pumping the other.) A colleague and I tested a lot of bottle teats/nipples for situations such as yours and a couple are definitely much better than others in terms of flow rate -- and slow flow on the package does NOT mean it actually is; not all slow-flow are created equal. Any one can print anything on those package labels. Bottle-feeding technique also can reinforce or interfere with breastfeeding oral behaviors. Let me know if you'd like more detail, but would have to be via personal email. Much of this info, except product details, is in Mothering Multiples in the chapter on "Making Up for a Poor Start."

    BTW, when possible before an expected feeding, "kangaroo" one or both babies in diaper only -- place one/both skin-on-skin on your naked chest. (Can put a light blanket, etc. over both/all of you.)

    Also, as Andrea mentioned, moving milk out of a bottle can be VERY different than moving it out of mom!

    Glad you're using the rental pump. (Personal pumps, even good ones as the Ameda Purely Yours or Medela's Pump-in-Style, are NOT designed for the job you need a pump for.) Glad the flanges fit. Sometimes the routine used for pumping can make a difference, so let us know how you use the pump and those on the list may have ideas for helping.

    Glad also your mother is there to help you! Gotta run...(my daughter's got me going to Pilates with her and I've got a class soon!)

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    Just a few months ago I was right where you are now, but with one LO...not 2. I gave up after 8 weeks, and regret it to this day. So, when I read your problem, I truly felt for you. I can't offer a whole lot of advice, because I failed at it and now my LO is FF. I just wanted to encourage you and say don't give up. You are doing a GREAT job. I know it is hard and is taking everything you have right now, but it will be so worth it when you are successfully BF your precious babies. You came to the right place for help. You have gotten lots of good advice on here. Take it. And don't be discouraged. Your babies know you are working hard for them. I am thinking of you and hoping that things are getting better with every feeding.

  9. #29
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    Feb 2006
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    422

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    Quote Originally Posted by sarahsmama View Post
    Just a few months ago I was right where you are now, but with one LO...not 2. I gave up after 8 weeks, and regret it to this day. So, when I read your problem, I truly felt for you. I can't offer a whole lot of advice, because I failed at it and now my LO is FF. I just wanted to encourage you and say don't give up. You are doing a GREAT job. I know it is hard and is taking everything you have right now, but it will be so worth it when you are successfully BF your precious babies. You came to the right place for help. You have gotten lots of good advice on here. Take it. And don't be discouraged. Your babies know you are working hard for them. I am thinking of you and hoping that things are getting better with every feeding.

    Your message is wonderful and inspiring, but please know that you did NOT fail. You did a tremendous job and you hung in during a period when each day can seem an eternity to a new mom, plus your daughter got your milk for all those weeks. We mothers are only as good as our babies are effective breastfeeders. Babies breastfeed -- all we can really do is offer them a seat at the table! (And when they have trouble initially, we must find other ways to feed the baby/babies and keep the milk moving!) Special newborn situations or challenges require good information and support, which many new mothers do not get. If anyone(s) failed, it was those who should have provided professional support.

    Please give yourself the credit and pats on the back you so deserve for all you did re: BF during a difficult period and all you still do now do for your baby!

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    46

    Default Re: Day 10 and still barely any milk!.....

    Thanks so much Karen! It helps as a mother to hear that every now and then! And, I had never really thought about it the way you put it. Next time I get annoyed washing bottles, and start feeling sorry for myself, I will remember those words! How are things going today, CherylNJ?

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