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Thread: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    5

    Default Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    I have been pumping for almost six months now, but haven't figured this out.

    It takes me a while to get a let down but then I gush, I don't always get a second let down any more and if I stop pumping in the middle of the first letdown I don't always get more milk.

    I need to up my son's calories, for now he is on mommy milk, thickener and oil, but he is still having a lot of trouble feeding and needs more calories. The feeding clinic wants us to use formula but with less water per scoop of powder but if I can pump and just give him hind milk they are willing to let me try that.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    8,272

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    I don't know how to pump separately ... but I know that if I let my pumped milk sit in the fridge it will separate out on it's own into a thick creamy layer on top and a more watery layer on the bottom. Perhaps you can take advantage of this natural separation and use more of the rich creamy milk that rises to the top? Good luck ....
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    8,591

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    Congratulations and your new baby! It must be a bit confusing right now. If you don't mind my asking, why do you need to increase your son's calories? I would like to hear some more of your situation!

    I definitely would do some more research before using formula made with less than the recommended amount of water...not only will it be difficult to swallow, but it may increase the likelihood of dehydration.

    Here is some information on hindmilk and foremilk, from a non-LLL source.

    Have you considered block nursing? The following is taken from the Kellymom website, and may help baby get to the hindmilk while nursing:

    If baby is gaining weight well, then having baby nurse from only one breast per feeding can be helpful.
    • If baby finishes nursing on the first side and wants to continue nursing, just put baby back onto the first side.
    • If the second side becomes uncomfortable, express a little milk until you're more comfortable and then use cool compresses - aim for expressing less milk each time until you are comfortable without expressing milk.
    1. Avoid extra breast stimulation, for example, unnecessary pumping, running the shower on your breasts for a long time or wearing breast shells.
    2. Between feedings, try applying cool compresses to the breast (on for 30 minutes, off for at least an hour). This can discourage blood flow and milk production.
    3. If nursing one side per feeding is not working after a week or so, try keeping baby to one side for a certain period of time before switching sides. This is called block nursing.
    • Start with 2-3 hours and increase in half-hour increments if needed.
    • Do not restrict nursing at all, but any time that baby needs to nurse simply keep putting baby back to the same side during that time period.
    • If the second side becomes uncomfortable, express a little milk until you're more comfortable and then use cool compresses - aim for expressing less milk each time until you are comfortable without expressing milk.
    • In more extreme cases, mom may need to experiment a bit with time periods over 4 hours to find the amount of time per breast that works best.
    If you are still wanting/needing to pump and give your baby the hindmilk, I would suggest doing what the pp suggests...pumping as much as you want/need from your breasts (but not too much b/c if you expressmore than necessary, you may only be contributing to the problem of too much foremilk), letting it sit in the refridgerator overnight and then pouring the cream off the top. I know of no other way to get hindmilk from pumping.

    I hope that helps. Feel free to pm me or write here..I will check back!

    Erin
    Wife to a grizzly
    Mama to my little deer (12/05) my loving bear cub (9/07--), and our little tiger (3/22/10)
    Born by one c-section and 2 amazing VBACs


    Miles in 2012: 350.5/900 (Actual Miles Ran: 189)
    Miles in 2011: 708.5 (Actual Miles Ran: 509)
    Miles in 2010: 800.5 (Actual Miles Ran: 620)

    January Miles: 37.5/75
    February Miles: 59/75
    March Miles: 42.5/60
    April Miles: 64
    May Miles: 41/70
    June Miles: 59
    July Miles: 39.5

    227.5 miles on my new shoes
    338 miles on my old shoes

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    8,272

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    The info & links provided above are totally great resources!

    One more - here's info on breast compressions that may be useful for poor weight gain (http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15bre...mpression.html)

    Please let us know how it's going!
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    He doesn't nurse, and it isn't an inballance because he is getting pumped milk already. He just needs more calories so he can grow.

    My LO is 6 months old, was a very sick baby when he was born and never got the feeding thing down. He has sucking, swallowing and aspirating issues. We are trying to avoid going back to a feeding tube, though many days I wish we still had it. He is generally taking about 10oz a day, though we have had some good days with up to 13oz and some poor eating days with 8oz. My LO has swallowing problems so we have to thicken his milk, which has the added benifit of adding extra calories. Otherwise we would be adding polycose as well. Since it has been determined that getting more into him by mouth isn't possible, the feeding clinic has us adding oil to his milk now and would like him on the condensed formula. They want him up to 55 calories an ounce which is hard with mommy milk.

    He is 12lbs 2oz which is small for six months, but he has been gaining instead of losing recently, just too slowly still.

    Since he does such a poor job on the bottle and I can't thicken the milk from the tap I am pumping for the long run. I used to get about 50oz a day but my supply has dropped and I am only getting about 30oz a day now. My two year old is still nursing though, and the amount she nurses really effects my pumping output.

    Can you really just skim off the top of the milk? I was afraid that messing with it that way wouldn't be safe. Most of my milk is the thick creamy part, there is very little clear on the bottom except from my first thing in the morning pumping.

    Thank you for your replies and help!!

    Liba, mommy to four

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    8,272

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    Liba -

    You'll need a definite answer from a LLL who has the knowledge / experience that I don't ... but I thought of using just the fatty part of breastmilk after reading this article (http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/LV/LVAprMay03p27.html) about a mom who was centrifuging her milk to create low-fat milk for her sick baby and basically you want to do the reverse and create high-fat milk.

    Hopefully someone with more knowledge / experience will chime in soon!

    Hang in there! Sounds like you're doing a ton of fantastic work for your LO.

    Lynn
    Last edited by lsksam; December 26th, 2006 at 12:27 PM.
    Lynn
    DS1: bf 7/2006 -> 4/2009; multiple food allergies
    DS2: bf 9/2009 -> ???
    ; multiple food allergies
    Breastmilk Donor - http://hmbana.org/index/donatemilk
    Click HERE to learn about baby led solids (BLS) / baby led weaning (BLW)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    8,591

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    I really don't see anything wrong with skimming off the top, but I don't know for sure. It sure sounds like the two of you have had a rough time , and I applaud you for sticking it out! It sounds like your lo is small for his age, and that must be scary. I know how worried I have been with my dd and her size. I would advise that you don't freeze and save what is left though, if you do decide to skim off the top, because that may cause and imbalance. I just don't know. And I really hope someone who does comes along soon. I just can't see why skimming would be unsafe, but again, I don't have any facts to back that up!

    again, erin

    Erin
    Wife to a grizzly
    Mama to my little deer (12/05) my loving bear cub (9/07--), and our little tiger (3/22/10)
    Born by one c-section and 2 amazing VBACs


    Miles in 2012: 350.5/900 (Actual Miles Ran: 189)
    Miles in 2011: 708.5 (Actual Miles Ran: 509)
    Miles in 2010: 800.5 (Actual Miles Ran: 620)

    January Miles: 37.5/75
    February Miles: 59/75
    March Miles: 42.5/60
    April Miles: 64
    May Miles: 41/70
    June Miles: 59
    July Miles: 39.5

    227.5 miles on my new shoes
    338 miles on my old shoes

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    I have been separating my milk lately too for my daughter to try to help her gain weight. What I do is stop halfway through. See I usually get about 4 ounces from each breast, so I stop for a second at 2 ounces, get a fresh container, than go again. The trick to getting hindmilk is to make sure you go until empty. Sometimes it takes about 30 minutes of pumping but then I get that last gush at the end and that is the best milk. You can actually see the difference between the two. Hope this helps
    By the way, i tried skimming from the top too and she wouldn't eat it, it was too thick for her.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    3,900

    Default Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    You can skim off the hindmilk to offer a higher calorie milk. Talk to your doctor about your baby's caloric and fluid needs, as skimming the "cream" off the top would change the fluid/fat ratio that your baby will be taking in.

    To maximize the amount of hindmilk you're pumping, note that studies have shown that an emptier breast=fattier milk. So, pumping more frequently and pumping until you feel "empty" will likely yeild more hindmilk.

    Do you have access to an IBCLC? If so, perhaps call around and find someone who has knowledge about low weight gain and helping babies with specific feeding issues. You would likely find someone with this kind of training at a hospital that has a NICU. They may be able to help with testing your milk and offer help/suggestions for helping you and assuring your baby has the optimal caloric intake.

    Do let us know how it goes!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5

    Smile Re: Hind milk, fore milk, how to pump seperately.

    Hello! I'm new here. Question? When I give my daughter a bottle of my milk, I take the milk out of the fridge and shake it so that the separtion of fat gets mixed in to the milk. Should I do this? Or should I just feed my daughter the bottle without shaking it? I thought I was doing good by mixing the fat so it is all balanced, but if leaving the fat on top will ensure more calories - maybe i should change.
    Thanks!
    Julie

    p.s. My daughter is gaining weight, but is the hind milk better?

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