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Thread: How much milk, before or after solids??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Default How much milk, before or after solids??

    My ds wakes up every 3 to 4 hours every night since about 3 months old and shows no signs of sleeping through. He once did 9 hours so I know he can manage a whole night!

    Why would he do 9 hours and then go back to 3 to 4?

    It is so hard to keep waking like this so. A lot of my friends seem to lead far more normal lives and do so much more with their lo's because they get a full nights sleep. I find it very hard to function on little sleep and find I sleep whenever lo does so we hardly ever leave the house, especially now it is winter an the afternoons are so dark.

    I introduced solids at 4 months and then stopped as he was not interested and now I have re introduced them. ds is 8 months old. He is breastfed and bottle fed. He has 5 teeth so I guess teething could be making him wake. He is especially bad at the mo and keeps tugging at his ears and shaking his head. He will not go back to sleep until he has been bf, he won't even take the bottle sometimes, only the breast. This is hard as my dh feels pushed out.

    Any advice on sleeping through and also weaning as I have no clue how much, what times (breakfast 10am, lunch 3pm and tea 7pm) because our sleep pattern is sooooooooo messed up. Do I give milk before a meal and how many times should ds be feeding (bf) a day and night?

    Ds always eats breakfast at 10 with dh and dh always moans at me if I bf ds before breakfast as he will not eat as much, is this ok?

    Thanks for you help

    One tired anxious unsure mum!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
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    279

    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    I think they only sleep those 8+hours just to tease us! My son only woke once two nights ago to nurse and I got all excited. Then of course he woke up four times last night just to show me who is the boss! Just when you think you have them on a schedule, something like teething happens and it all changes again.

    Your son sounds like he is definitely "comfort nursing." My son used to only wake up 2xs a night to feed and when he's teething, it's as often as 4xs a night. He's in a co-sleeper, so this might be the reason; I'm nearby and we both go right back to sleep.

    I am pretty sure, however, that at 8 months your baby has the physical ability to sleep through the night, but is waking up b/c he's in pain and wants a nice, warm, soft mommy and her milk. Have you tried formula before bed (always worked with my baby #1, as formula takes longer to digest), teething tablets and/or baby pain reliever?

    Finally, someone linked me to a page by Dr. Jay Gordon on how to get your kid to sleep through the night and it seemed so humane and reasonable. It's directed at co-sleeping families and I don't know if you are, but if you really want to work toward weaning your baby and sleeping through the night (if that's even possible at this stage), you may want to give it a shot. I don't remember the link, but I'm sure it's easily googled.

    good luck!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    70

    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    Thank you for your comments. Yes we are co-sleeping but usually only when ds wakes up for his 3 to 4am feed. He is in a cot in our room and then we bring him to bed with us and at the moment he is so fidgety that I am hardly getting any sleep.

    I am sure too that it is comfort feeding as he only feeds for about 5 mins and is then fast asleep. If I try and put him back in his cot he shuffles around it and wakes himself up but as soon as I bring him in with us he falls sound asleep. I cant blame him though, I know where Id rather be!

    I will certainly have a look on Dr Jay Gordons site and see if I can try a sleep technique. Im not into crying it out and ds never stops if I do that anyway!

    Thanks again. Any more comments or advice much appreciated with regards to solids and how much milk ds should be having at 8 months. Should I bf him before solids or after?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    Where can I find the link to Dr. Jay Gordon ? I looked and the pages wouldn't come up that I had tried finding?
    Jenn SAHM and carseat to

    DD 5 years old , nursed till just shy of 3 yrs old



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    10

    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    Hi...let me tell you what I do. My ds sleeps thru the night, usually from 8:30 to 5am.

    Why don't you try giving him a bath like around 7:30pm keep him up a little and then give him his formula bottle with a little bit of cereal. Make sure he's dry and well feed, put him to sleep and then let us know how he does. The bath will relax him and put him to sleep right away. That's what my lo does.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    4,029

    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    If your DS is comfort feeding, then IMO it's highly unlikely that any sort of real change in what he eats before bed will make him sleep longer. It was usually my experience that when your child is ready emotionally & physically to sleep through, he will.

    Also, just remember that it's really common (and OK) that your babe doesn't sleep through. I know you're wanting your sleep, but this too shall pass. My DS didn't sleep through the night until 13 months of age. We had him in a crib, though, so my sleep wasn't bothered by his nighttime restlessness. I'd just feed him the 2-3x at night, and go right back to sleep (as would he).

    Lisa

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    I introduced solids at 4 months and then stopped as he was not interested and now I have re introduced them. ds is 8 months old. He is breastfed and bottle fed. He has 5 teeth so I guess teething could be making him wake. He is especially bad at the mo and keeps tugging at his ears and shaking his head. He will not go back to sleep until he has been bf, he won't even take the bottle sometimes, only the breast. This is hard as my dh feels pushed out.

    Any advice on sleeping through and also weaning as I have no clue how much, what times (breakfast 10am, lunch 3pm and tea 7pm) because our sleep pattern is sooooooooo messed up. Do I give milk before a meal and how many times should ds be feeding (bf) a day and night?
    #1...you really need to continue to breastfeed your son before ALL solids at least until age 1. Until age 1, baby needs to be getting most of their nutrition from breastmilk or formula. If they start to replace breastmilk or formula with too many solid foods before then, there is a risk of malnutrition. This happens because there is no single solid food that has the same nutritional content as breastmilk. Naturally baby isn't eating a wide enough variety of foods to make up for that until they're much older, alot of foods aren't even totally appropriate until baby's a little older, so you really need to make sure that baby always nurses first. There is more info about this at www.kellymom.com Discuss this with your DH so he understands, and don't be concerned if baby doesn't want to eat much per sitting...DH can still feed baby the solids. It's actually normal for alot of babies to not eat more than a couple of tablespoons of food per sitting...baby will eat more the older he gets.

    #2 I'm so sorry your DH is feeling pushed out...but breastfeeding is one of the best ways to help relieve your babies teething pain...especially during the night. It has something to do with helping release endorphins...which are natural pain killers. It's normal for him to prefer the breast...especially if the bottle has formula in it(if that's what you're using, I didn't see where you said). Breastmilk tastes dramatically better than formula and is better for baby...plus, with the breast, there is the warm physical closeness, which baby longs for, especially with teething. If you look at it this way, the bottle is a "thing", but when baby breastfeeds, he gets YOU. Its probably difficult for your DH to deal with, but you can encourage him to bond with baby in other ways. For instance, I make sure I do shopping trips for necessities by myself so baby and Daddy get plenty of alone time...plus there's diapers...and rocking baby to sleep if he doesn't fall asleep nursing. Daddy can also get a backpack (Kelty makes a great one my DH loves to use with our 9 mo. old) and take baby for walks...even in the winter...just get a really snuggly snowsuit for baby.

    #3 one of the pp's suggested a bottle of formula in the evening to help baby sleep longer. I suggest that you do NOT do that just to get baby to sleep. If you don't already have issues with low supply, adding formula will definitely create them for you as you'll be replacing breastmilk feedings with formula.

    #4 Regarding Weaning...its not recommended to start weaning until baby is a year old (the AAP even recommends this...the WHO recommends breastfeeding until age 2) If you need to wean, make sure you replace the breastfeedings with formula until age 1.

    #5 As far as meals go, I don't think there's really any right or wrong way to schedule them. In our house, we wake up...baby nurses...we all get dressed and have breakfast. A couple of hours later my oldest DS has a snack and a couple of hours after that we have lunch. Another couple of hours and a snack again, and dinner a couple of hours after that....then a bedtime snack for our oldest boy and bedtime sometime later. We don't have things exactly timed...but they end up being almost scheduled because we all wake around 8am. Our 9 mo. old isn't quite ready for alot of snacks...he pretty much just eats breakfast, lunch and dinner with the family and occasionally has a snack in there somewhere if he seems to want one...but not all babies actually have even 3 meals at this age yet.

    #6 Re: number of BF's per day...that really depends on what's in the bottles you're giving him and how many per day he's getting. My 9 mo. old nurses about every 3 hours now during the day plus meals with solids...at night he still nurses 2-3 times too...but he's going through a teething stage...and some babies don't nurse that frequently at this stage...maybe a LLL could chime in if there's a minimum recommendation regarding breastfeedings at 8 mos. old.

    #7 SLEEP! This is a tough stage. Both of my kids have been night wakers at some point...especially at this age. I've read alot of things that say that its a developmental thing...that they work so hard at learning new things, that their brain continues to do it at night too, and they frequently wake themselves up...not to mention teething issues at the same time. It can be really frustrating. Your baby will sleep through the night and you will sleep again. I did with my first baby, and I know I will (and him too) with my second DS. Some things that I did in order to cope with the sleep deprivation during this really difficult time were to make sure baby slept in our room and nurse him back to sleep when he fussed. My babies have never been the types to go back to sleep easily if they got fully woken up, so I get more sleep when I let baby sleep in our room and nurse him whenever he wakes up. We can nurse side-lying, and baby gets more sleep and I don't have to fully wake up. I did night wean later on...but it was more like 13 or 14 mos. for us. Also, at this point with both of my kids I noticed that they really became super soakers at night time and would wake up from having a full diaper... neither one will tolerate a full diaper...and then would want to nurse back to sleep after a diaper change...a viscious cycle...

    Good Luck!
    Last edited by Mommie of 2; December 19th, 2006 at 01:34 PM. Reason: misspelling

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    436

    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    Great advice from Mommie of 2. I was just wondering -- you mentioned he was pulling at his ears. Is there a chance that he might have an ear infection? My son started ear-pulling, then got a fever, and then the fever went down and he seemed perfectly happy during the day. I took him to the doctor anyway a few days later since we were going on a trip, and indeed he did have an ear infection. That could also be contributing to night waking. Of course now my son has been declared infection-free and he is still waking at night...but it might be worth a check in any case.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: How much milk, before or after solids??

    Thanks for your wonderful advice,

    ds has been to the docs and does not have an ear infection. I think it is mainly teething as it seems to come and go. Just lately he has become V VERY fussy and we can only put him in his cot once he has fallen FAST asleep. He is waking 4 to 5 hourly at the moment which is good and I seem to be getting more sleep as we are co sleeping from the 2am feed.

    The last week we have had an absolutely wonderful time being lo's first xmas although his routine is out the window so I feel bad that he is all over the place with times for feedings. He keeps going off his food and just wants mummys milk so I am assuming it is teething as breast milk has soothing properties.

    I still want to know how much milk lo should be having at 8 months. Think Ill post another message.

    Thanks again and happy holidays to all.xx

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