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Thread: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

  1. #1

    Default Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    Hello fellow pampers! I'm a first time mum and new to forums so pls bear with me.

    I have a 13.5 week old daughter, who was born 8 weeks early. From v.early on she would latch on but not suck, even though we knew she could suck v.well. She'd then bob on and off for ages and that went on for three weeks in the hospital. We finally tried nipple shields, she fed like a dream instantly and we were discharged.

    I didn't know at the time but my oversupply and fast let down were the cause of the problems. After a couple of weeks on shields my supply dried up (I'm still traumatised from the midwife telling me all was well and it was fine that she was nursing for hours, never seemed satisfied and wanted holding constantly - now I know she was just plain hungry I am so scared that I could miss this again. It was only me going to a breastfeeding drop in that sorted it). At the drop in the support worker helped me latch her on and she fed perfectly. After 30 mins she was milk drunk and happy. This went on for a couple days but then I started to feel pain when feeding, but stupidly I perservered. Turns out my supply had picked right back up and she was clamping to deal with it. I ended up so damaged I couldn't nurse and when I tried to pump it was pure blood. I had a freezer full of milk from pumping whilst she was in hospital so I had to introduce a bottle.

    Once healed I tried her at the breast again, but always got a squashed nipple and white ridge and that would end up splitting and bleeding. I also have raynaulds but again, at the time I didn't know the cause so thought all my pain must have been down to me doing it wrong. Once I learned the causes of my issues (from the internet) I tried pumping mainly, and nursing once a day in the hope that as she grew it would get better. I only pumped when she fed and got my supply in line with hers (in the meantime my freezer broke and I lost all my precious and hard earned milk supplies). I have therefore been pumping only one feed ahead, meaning I can rarely go out and have been very low as a result.

    I tried nursing again last week, lying down to feed, and it seemed to be going well whilst she was on, although initially there was some pulling back/squirming etc during let down but the ridge was lower albeit still there, but it got progressively worse and has split again. Ive had a number of NHS support workers, a private lactation consultant and a lll leader check our feeding and they can't see anything wrong.

    Unfortunately Chloe was never satisfied after a breastfeed, and we thought she just wanted to comfort suck but having returned to pumping again due to damage, it turns out my supply had dropped a lot, just as she was having a growth spurt and feeding tons more. I believe that without the instant gratification of either a fast let down or a bottle, she won't suck hard enough between let downs and therefore doesn't get a good feed despite nursing for over an hour and falling asleep. She also took to falling asleep on the bottle and I had to reluctantly move her up a teat, so I will be making it less likely she will ever put the effort required into feeding (and I can't blame her - since birth she's had tubes, cups, shields, breast and bottles!).

    Question now is do I try again, or stick to pumping. I have to admit I hate pumping, but I can't bear the thought of not giving her my milk. I am terrified of doing anything that will affect her weight because she is still so tiny, and she has only gained well whilst being on expressed milk :-(

    I had to top up with formula for first time ever this week (she's taking 4oz breast milk and 1 oz nutriprem, six times a day, with usually an extra ounce at one feed and she sleeps through at night).supply is picking up again though so I hope to drop the tops ups asap.

    Any ideas? An SNS has been suggested but I'm reluctant to complicate things any further (for my sanity as well as her confusion!).

    Can I have opinions pls? Now my supply is down my flow is much slower, but ironically now she is too accustomed to easy feeding... And i'm still not sure quite how I end up so badly damaged. I'm just healing from last week's efforts.

    I really want to get out more.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    Just to be clear on the baby's take in. You are supplementing 6oz of formula a day on top of 24oz of milk? So 5oz feedings? Because if I am reading that right, I think you are over feeding her. In that 5oz a LOT for a baby that young to take in at one time. Most of the time they take in 2-3 oz at a time at the breast. And there is a tendency to over feed when bottle feeding based on the fact that babies learn to empty bottles rather than self regulate. So let's start there. Now the amount of 24oz in a day or even a little bit more doesn't sound like too much in a 24hour period. But 6 feedings a day is not enough to maintain your supply. Which is probably why you are seeing it decrease. Babies at the breast usually eat 8 to 12 times a day. So at MINIMUM you should be pumping 8 times a day to maintain supply. So let's start with that info. 5oz in not a normal amount for one feed so if you are making 4? Feed her 4. And your breasts need to be stimulated at the very least 8 times a day.
    Now based on your other points: Which is that you are feeling trapped by all the pumping-yes of course I encourage you to work to get her back to the breast if possible. Because once you have breastfeeding down, you can take your kid and your boobs and go where ever and feed when ever. Although, NIP is a whole other thing. It does sound however like your child has been feeding fine and so far has been agreeable to going back to your breast. But of course the longer she is away from the breast and isn't doing the work involved in breastfeeding the less like that becomes. So if you are interested in getting her back to breast I would actually have a nurse in with her. And the sooner the better. That is where you spend the whole day in bed with the baby, skin to skin with your breast out allowing baby full unrestricted access to them with the ability to smell the milk all day. Can you have a day like with her soon? Today or tomorrow?

    Way too lazy for formula

  3. #3

    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    Hi, Thanks for replying.

    Firstly the amount I'm feeding her: I know it seems huge to me too, but I started her on much less when first expressing and she was definitely still hungry. I only ever feed her on demand, and I start with 4oz and only give the 1oz top up if she's still hungry when it's done. As of one week ago she weighed 7lb 13oz, at 12.5 weeks actual and 5.5 weeks adjusted. When on the shields, whilst still gaining slightly, she dropped to 2nd percentile for her corrected age, but since expressing she has been tracking the 9th percentile perfectly for her corrected age so I have to conclude her intake is right for her and she is just trying to catch up on growth, as it's like she's on a permanent growth spurt... However I am constantly worrying about whether I'm feeding her too much or too little or what, so I'm glad you've raised it. All the hv says is to go off her weight gain and nappy output and they're v.happy with it. Having said all that shes taken slightly less today but she's also had her injections so can't say whether it's the end of a growth spurt or not.

    Secondly, number of pumps and my supply: Until a few weeks ago I had ridiculous oversupply and constant engorgement and leaking. When she was still on a tube in hospital receiving roughly 1oz every few hours, I was pumping more than 33oz in 24 hours, only pumping every 3 to 4 hours in the day and once in the night. I had to work v.hard to bring it down in line with her without dropping it too much. Because my supply was low on Monday this week (I was only pumping about 3oz in 15 mins when lately I'm used to getting at least 5oz in about 8 mins) I've been pumping for longer the last couple of days and now my supply is picking up again (today I'm getting just over 5oz in 15 mins) so I was just going to do one more pump than her feeds. For reference when she was in hospital I could easily pump over 7oz in less than 10 mins and my breasts would feel full again v.soon after pumping, so I am v.wary of increasing pumping too much as I believe I will easily go back to oversupply and that's what caused all my problems in the first place.

    As for a nursing holiday, this is what I did last week for three days, and whilst she had nothing but bf for those days she was v.unsettled, never seemed full at all and by the end of it both my nipples were torn and bleeding and she was vomiting my blood, so I'm a bit scared to repeat the process without knowing what to do differently this time. As I say a number of experts have checked the latch and can't see reasons for the damage other than putting it down to her ways of dealing with my fast let downs. I think she's OK with it now my supply is lower, but as she's not sucking hard enough between let downs and is falling asleep, I'd need to compress, risking clamping and damage again (today is the first day I've been able to allow my bra to touch my nipples without it reopening the wounds).

    I sound like I'm being difficult, and I apologise for that, but I am just too scared of a) risking slowing her growth because she has so much catching up to do and b) damaging my nipples again. We did well today though with timing the pumping better so we actually got out of the house for 3 hours which we've not managed before.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    PS I believe the reason for my recent dip in supply was actually her not taking enough during the days when I fed her straight from the breast last week, which is another reason I'm nervous about going straight for another nursing holiday.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    Hi mamanoon. I think it might help if there is clarity on what is and what is not a breastfeeding problem. I wonder if you are having trouble making headway on the issues you are having because you are trying to solve things that are not problems while at the same time not getting the help you need for the things that are problems.

    A baby not gaining is a problem. But there is a wide variety of what constitutes normal gain. Percentages, especially in the unique situation of a very small, truly premature baby, do not mean as much as what the overall rate of gain is. You figure that out by looking at how much baby has gained total since baby was born. Also I am not sure what you are being told about baby needing to "catch up" and what that really means. After all your baby is actually the age of a full term 5 week old and not a 13 week old. Adjusted ages are used in part to set up reasonable expectations- no one should be expecting your baby to magically weigh as much as a full term 13 week old or anything close anytime soon.

    Mom being injured by nursing is a problem. This should never happen, and I am confused how this could be entirely the result of OP, I do not care how bad it was. If you are becoming injured by nursing your baby and your IBCLC and LLL leader are saying nothing is wrong, they are clearly mistaken. Something is almost certainly up with your baby's ability to latch. Also, baby being used to bottles, while a problem for other reasons, is unlikely to cause your baby to injure you horribly when nursing.

    Here are things that are either not a problem or not any kind of reliable indication there is a problem.
    Fussy, unsettled babies. This is how most babies these ages behave.
    Pumping 3 ounces in 15 minutes when before you pumped 5. Pump output is going to vary naturally. Also pumping 3 ounces in 15 minutes indicates entirely normal milk production.

    A baby not "sucking hard enough." A baby may not be nursing effectively, but it is not really about sucking. Milk is not transferred by a baby sucking. This is more how pumps work, but not babies. Babies milk the breast by compressing the milk sinuses with their jaw, mouth and tongue movements when latched correctly, and more milk comes down to where baby can milk it out because the milk is ejected through/from the breast due to the stimulation of nursing that causes a hormonal rush that allows this to happen.

    For further clarification, here are things that are usually true:

    As Djs.mom points out, most babies (after two weeks of age after a full term birth) need about 25-35 ounces of milk per day to gain normally. I imagine that your baby did not need quite that much early on, but now that baby is "adjusted" age 5 weeks, your baby's average needed intake for normal gain from now on would be around there I assume. A baby eating more than they need is not a healthy pathway to baby "catching up."

    When breastfed, babies get this amount of milk by nursing about 8-12 times (or more) in 24 hours. This is why meals at the breast tend to be about 2-4 ounces at a time, and not more than that, at least not regularly.

    So, when bottle a feeding a baby, even though yes it is much more difficult than nursing, it is usually best to try to emulate this biologically normal feeding pattern (small, frequent meals and frequent pumping) as much as possible.

    This is why paced bottle feeding is encouraged (or alternatives to bottles) when a baby needs to be fed not at the breast. Properly done, paced bottle feeding technique and positioning give baby more control of feeding pauses and the flow of milk, slowing feedings down to a pace that is more like what is normal at the breast, and this reduces baby's tendency to take large bottles at a time- which they do mostly because they have an intense desire to suckle into a relaxed state or too sleep, not because they actually need that much milk at once. Because they don't.

    Even if your baby is getting a normal amount of milk overall, baby could still be getting overfed at each meal. When this happens, it causes several other breastfeeding issues. It causes baby to not nurse often enough, which causes mom to feel engorged or overfull and for the letdown to be too fast, upsetting baby or causing baby to clamp. It also might cause baby to not nurse with normal vigor when baby does nurse, because baby does not need much and actually is not all that interested, and perhaps this is what you are experiencing when you think baby is not sucking hard enough.

    Much more than any thing else you mention, I am mostly concerned that baby is injuring you when nursing. This is almost always indicative of a serious latch issue. I would suggest read this description of what to expect at a consult with a lactation consultant. If you have a consultant who has been doing these things with you, then maybe go back to her and clarify your desire to as much as possible, eliminate pumping and bottles and exclusively nurse your baby, get help from her to fix whatever is going on with latch, and get the help you need to safely wean off the bottles and pumping. http://cwgenna.com/lconsult.html
    Last edited by @llli*maddieb; August 17th, 2017 at 11:59 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*maddieb View Post
    As Djs.mom points out, most babies (after two weeks of age after a full term birth) need about 25-35 ounces of milk per day to gain normally. I imagine that your baby did not need quite that much early on, but now that baby is "adjusted" age 5 weeks, your baby's average needed intake for normal gain from now on would be around there I assume. A baby eating more than they need is not a healthy pathway to baby "catching up."

    When breastfed, babies get this amount of milk by nursing about 8-12 times (or more) in 24 hours. This is why meals at the breast tend to be about 2-4 ounces at a time, and not more than that, at least not regularly.

    So, when bottle a feeding a baby, even though yes it is much more difficult than nursing, it is usually best to try to emulate this biologically normal feeding pattern (small, frequent meals and frequent pumping) as much as possible.

    This is why paced bottle feeding is encouraged (or alternatives to bottles) when a baby needs to be fed not at the breast. Properly done, paced bottle feeding technique and positioning give baby more control of feeding pauses and the flow of milk, slowing feedings down to a pace that is more like what is normal at the breast, and this reduces baby's tendency to take large bottles at a time- which they do mostly because they have an intense desire to suckle into a relaxed state or too sleep, not because they actually need that much milk at once. Because they don't.

    Even if your baby is getting a normal amount of milk overall, baby could still be getting overfed at each meal. When this happens, it causes several other breastfeeding issues. It causes baby to not nurse often enough, which causes mom to feel engorged or overfull and for the letdown to be too fast, upsetting baby or causing baby to clamp. It also might cause baby to not nurse with normal vigor when baby does nurse, because baby does not need much and actually is not all that interested, and perhaps this is what you are experiencing when you think baby is not sucking hard enough.
    Maddie makes a ton of great and thorough points. The bolded is what I was getting at. I am not suggesting that your baby is taking in too much milk in a day. I think your baby probably is getting the right amount in a 24hour period. I think she is being overfed per feed and the way in which she is getting it is detrimental. And I also think you are confusing a couple of things. So it sounds like you produce plenty of milk. And so supplementing with ANY formula is detrimental. And it's detrimental 2 fold. So you are talking about your baby only being satisfied or not hungry after the top offs. The problem with formula is that it doesn't work the way breastmilk does. Breastmilk is almost completely absorbed into a baby's organs and tissues. There is almost no waste at all at this age. They grow exponentially the 1st 6 months of their lives. The way they do this is by feeding around the clock. And that is also the way they keep your supply at the level where it's constantly matches their growing needs. Formula, is harder to digest, it takes longer and less of it is absorbed. People OFTEN mistake this process for satisfaction on the part of the child. The fact that the child goes longer between feeds, and wants to nurse less often. But that isn't the case. And it's often the reason that combo feeding doesn't work. Because the baby goes longer between feedings than she normally would. Making less demands on the mother to nurse and it's all supply and demand and therefore the supply goes down. And then the mother makes less and needs more formula and round and round we go until her supply tanks and she is convinced that she was doing everything she could and her supply just "disappeared." To make enough milk to exclusively breastfeed you have to feed around the clock. That's just how it works. It's huge and overwhelming, all consuming and as it sounds like you are experiencing can be very very isolating in the beginning. All very normal. Eventually you find your groove as a dyad and it gets easier and less overwhelming.
    Now, based on everything you are saying you have the ability to make all of her milk. So whether you decide to pump exclusively or work to fix your latch issues and get the baby back to the breast I encourage you to do that. And remember that just because a baby WILL take more milk doesn't mean that she NEEDS more milk. We go round and round here all the time with DCP insisting on new mothers that are pumping bring MORE milk as children get older because formula fed babies need more as they get older. EBF babies don't. So when someone insists that the baby now needs 4 bottles in a 9 hour period instead of three, we say give her four 3oz bottles instead of three 4oz bottles. Smaller bottle more often. But the same amount of milk.
    And that is to some degree what I am suggesting here. If you feel like 30 oz in a 24hr period is the right amount, fine but feed her that in more smaller feeds. And all your milk. Because you seem to be able to make it.
    I agree with Maddie that getting your baby back to the breast is going to be the path of least resistance in the long run. But I know that a problem that some women-especially women who like to collect data to solve problems- OFTEN run into an anxiety issue with getting back to breast because they then are unable to know exactly how much the baby is consuming and have a hard time trusting the process. I don't know where you are in that cycle. Only you can decide if you are going to be able to do that. Please know though that nothing about a baby always wanting to eat at this age is unusual. Nor is a baby taking more milk in a bottle than they need. So I think if you get the latch stuff worked out you CAN get back to breast. But I want your baby to have your milk. And I have seen plenty of women here exclusively pump for a year or longer. So I know it CAN be done. But it is ALWAYS ALWAYS way more time consuming and way more work. At any rate, whichever way you decide to go? I really encourage you to feed her less than 5oz in any one feed.

    Way too lazy for formula

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    Double post
    Last edited by @llli*djs.mom; August 18th, 2017 at 02:09 PM.

    Way too lazy for formula

  8. #8

    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    Thanks Maddie, what you say makes a lot of sense. I've never heard of paced bottle feeding before - wish I had done earlier.

    However, when feeding was initially going OK after discharge from hospital, she would feed for 20 mins and then go four - five hours before her next feed, 24 hours a day. Also, when I first put her straight to breast the same pattern was followed. Unfortunately my supply went silly again after a few days, causing clamping and severe nipple damage. So whilst constant nursing may the norm, I am not convinced it is the norm for my baby. The only times I have experienced her wanting to nurse all the time has been firstly when my supply dwindled on the shields, and secondly when she wasn't nursing effectively last week. Both times she was just plain hungry. Both times i let her continue with the tentative suckling for hours on end as all the advice said. This second time she'd just keep nodding off but cry if I tried to take her away and then go back on. Repeat to fade but without the fading!! It was only when I returned to pumping that I saw how much my supply had gone down. Both times she got no proper sleep and was not content at all. When I switched to pumping she was a much happier baby. I know that might be short term gain but it's hard to ignore.

    I am glad you clarified that the amount I'm feeding her sounds about right in total, as I was really concerned last night that I was doing that wrong as well, and I'm not exactly feeling confident when it comes to feeding.

    Djsmum, I never had any intention of continuing with formula top ups. I was upset at temporarily having had to resort to formula in the first place and having someone list all the reasons this is bad just made me feel more depressed. As I said in my original post my supply is picking back up (I am already back to producing more than she needs. I have still given an ounce of formula on half her feeds today to try to get a stock a couple of feeds ahead - I can't risk pumping much extra because I will be straight back to oversupply and engorgement, but she will be back on just my milk asap).

    What I need to understand is:
    a) If I need to continue with bottles how will I give her less at each feed if she is hungry and crying afterwards (since having to top up I currently give her 4oz all breastmilk, and then offer the extra ounce formula only if she's upset and searching for it after a good winding session and I've gone and mixed the formula).
    b) how do I prevent the nipple damage if nobody can find anything wrong with the latch? There is absolutely no pain when feeding, but I am left with a ridge afterwards.
    c) at what point do I stop messing her about and settle on one method? I would love to breastfeed her but I feel that three months of trying with little success is a lot, and I'm not sure how much more I can cope with. If there are any women who took more than three months and were successful I'd like to hear your story, and also from those exclusively pumping as to what made them decide to stick with that route.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    I am not trying to make you feel bad or depressed. I am trying to explain why the top off might be seen as the thing that is making her seem "full" or "satisfied." In terms of the amount 1st-try not letting her go so long between feeds. She doesn't have to want to nurse all the time. But perhaps if she wasn't waiting so LONG in between feeds she wouldn't be in a position where she was still hungry after 4oz. Try to give her 2 or 3 oz bottles to begin with. An hour or so before you normally feed her. And then if she is acting hungry or cranky then give her the additional one oz. & then repeat this process again so that the distance between your feedings is less and the amounts are smaller.
    In terms of No One being able to find the problem, have any of the people who looked at you been IBCLCs? Because that is where I expect you to be able to find the most knowledgeable support. The ridge issue may correct itself as her mouth gets bigger. But I would want an IBCLC to hear your story and be able to see the latch and not only help you nurse in her presence but also give you problem solving solutions for when she isn't with you.
    In the event you don't get responses from people in the two categories, you can search the forum using phrases like exclusive pumping and some threads will pop up that you can read.

    Way too lazy for formula

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Should I try breast again or exclusively pump?

    a) If I need to continue with bottles how will I give her less at each feed if she is hungry and crying afterwards (since having to top up I currently give her 4oz all breastmilk, and then offer the extra ounce formula only if she's upset and searching for it after a good winding session and I've gone and mixed the formula).
    You try paced bottle feeding, you offer baby the bottle more often overall, and you expect there to be times baby cluster feeds. what is called a "top off" when bottle feeding also happens when a baby is breastfeeding, but it is called "cluster feeding" or perhaps, "what you are hungry again? Ok, here you go" In other words when I say that meals are 2-4 ounces I do not mean they are 2-4 ounces and then baby sleeps for 3 hours like clockwork. That is not how it works. If you are going to try all the above, I suggest give baby and yourself time to adjust (at least a couple weeks) to this new pattern before making the judgment about it.

    b) how do I prevent the nipple damage if nobody can find anything wrong with the latch? There is absolutely no pain when feeding, but I am left with a ridge afterwards.
    Well, now I am confused. I do not understand how nursing can be entirely comfortable but you are so severely injured from your baby nursing, you are bleeding enough for your baby to vomit blood. Something is not adding up with this story. Of course pumping could cause nipple injury as well, or perhaps something is going on with how your breasts are being cared for between nursing sessions, but overall it just does not make sense. As far as finding someone who can help= unfortunately sometimes it does take seeing more than one person, or it may take seeing the same person multiple times, to make the adjustments that help with latch. It sounds like you saw an LLL Leader and a IBCLC. LLL leaders can be very knowledgeable, but they are not trained to deal with unusual situations that are outside the norm, and your situation (because baby was premature) is outside the norm. So I would suggest either revisit the IBCLC or see a different IBCLC if that is possible. They should be able to use the tools/methods explained in the article I linked above to more completely assess your situation.
    ) at what point do I stop messing her about and settle on one method? I would love to breastfeed her but I feel that three months of trying with little success is a lot, and I'm not sure how much more I can cope with. If there are any women who took more than three months and were successful I'd like to hear your story, and also from those exclusively pumping as to what made them decide to stick with that route.
    Well first I would suggest not call trying to breastfeed your baby messing her about. It is frustrating and tiring and even painful for you, I get it, but it is not hurting your baby in any way to try to feed her at the breast.
    There is no need to ever settle on one method. Many babies are always "combination fed." It is probably more work than only nursing, but I do not see how it is more work to combo feed than to EP. It might seem simpler to do only pump and bottles, but that is not the same as saying it is easier.

    The longer a baby gets only bottles, the less likely it is that baby will ever nurse. The longer and more bottles a baby gets, the more likely baby will stop any nursing at some point. But the opposite is not true, you can nurse a baby until any point and then switch partly or entirely to bottles. So you can try to nurse as long as you like, and when you do not want to try anymore, you can switch to bottles.

    The forum has been very quiet for many months, so I am not sure you will get a response from someone, but as djsmom suggests you can search. If you do general online searches you will find stories of babies coming to the breast at this age and much older, adopted children who never nursed coming to the breast even at a year or more, etc. Also it may help to know that most of the time in a situation where baby is bottle fed and mom is working toward breastfeeding, there is the added issue of low milk production that has to be solved. This is arguably the harder part of getting baby back to the breast. Making enough milk is at least half the battle.

    It is true that some 3 month old babies nurse only about 6-8 times in 24 hours. This can be normal when 1)mom has a large storage capacity, 2) baby has a large stomach and likes to eat until very full and 3) baby has little interest in comfort nursing. In other words while a little unusual, this might happen naturally and be fine- even in that case there would be no harm in encouraging baby to nurse more often. It would not be normal for a 5 week old or younger baby to nurse that infrequently.

    Many newborns, even entirely healthy and full term, need to be actively awoken to nurse often enough in the early weeks. Since premature babies act even more newborn than newborns, and for much longer, it makes sense to me your baby slept long hours early on. Your baby doing this might indicate baby's developmental stage, and also might indicate overfeeding, but I am not sure what else it would indicate. In other words, the fact your baby took/takes large meals at a time, then sleeps/slept unusually long hours does not necessarily indicate your baby is a biological outlier when it comes to needed meal size or frequency. It was in part the move to a strict 4 hour feeding schedule for all babies including newborns (after hospital births became the norm) that doomed breastfeeding for generations of mothers and babies- such long stretches between nursing sessions may not always cause a problem, but they are never helpful in solving breastfeeding problems.
    Last edited by @llli*maddieb; August 18th, 2017 at 05:20 PM.

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