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Thread: Tongue tied? Latching problem? Not enough Milk?

  1. #1

    Default Tongue tied? Latching problem? Not enough Milk?

    New mom here!
    My baby was born full term via scheduled c-section, due to breech presentation. Nurses well every three hours and was very predictable. She was an amazingly good baby. Gradually over the last 2 months ( she's 4 months) she had become fussy and kind of on edge so to speak . She went from sleeping almost through the night to waking up practically every hour screaming and crying. I would feed her... but she pulled away a lot and would get frustrated. It was exhausting. Ok so fast forward, after a visit with my mom ( veteran breastfeeder) and my pediatrician, I learned my baby wasn't getting nearly enough food.
    I started supplementing. I'm not really thrilled about it, but I'd way rather formula feed then my baby go hungry . So last week we find out she's tongue tied, it didn't seem to hinder her earlier. So I don't know if she is having a latching problem, or I'm just not making enough?
    I really want to breastfeed my baby, and this is rather emotional for me. So any help would be appreciated!

    Thank you!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    10,267

    Default Re: Tongue tied? Latching problem? Not enough Milk?

    Hi peachesandcream, welcome to the forum. I am so sorry you are having these concerns.

    Whether the problem is tongue tie, some other latch or low transfer issue, or low milk production (or a combination- poor latch over time would cause low milk production) these are almost always entirely solvable issues. So, first, take heart.

    I have to ask a few questions. These may seem redundant, but it is important. Mothers are told or come to believe that there are problems when in fact there are none, or come to believe the problems are much bigger than they are for many reasons. So to help, it would help me to have more clarity.

    First off, can you define more clearly what this means?
    Ok so fast forward, after a visit with my mom ( veteran breastfeeder) and my pediatrician, I learned my baby wasn't getting nearly enough food.
    When was this? How was this conclusion made and what was suggested you do about it? Was there any indication prior to the visit with your mom that there was a problem with weight gain? If you can give a complete weight check history from birth, that would be helpful.

    I started supplementing. I'm not really thrilled about it, but I'd way rather formula feed then my baby go hungry .
    Can you explain how long you have been supplementing baby, and what and how much baby is getting in supplemental feedings each day, (meaning, not at the breast, either formula or your expressed milk?) Are you also pumping? if so, please explain how that is going. (How many times in 24 hours, what kind of pump, what you are able to pump in a single session and per day.)

    So last week we find out she's tongue tied, it didn't seem to hinder her earlier.
    How did you find this out? Who diagnosed it? Was any treatment suggested?
    So I don't know if she is having a latching problem, or I'm just not making enough?
    If there really is a problem, it may be that both are occurring. Poor latch leading to poor milk transfer will lead to low milk production. Of course, so will supplementing if mom is not able to pump often enough to offset how often baby is supplemented. If baby is being oversupplemented or erroneously supplemented, that is a greater problem.

    Also, what about how often your baby nurses, and how often baby nursed previously to the weight gain concern being raised? It sounds like your baby slept a lot early on? Even "through the night" at a young age? Is it possible that baby always had a low nursing frequency and that was part of the problem (if there is indeed poor gain?) Sleeping long stretches and/or every such and such hours with any regularity is actually uncommon in the very early months, what is more common is very frequent nursing night and day, that happens in clusters.

    Also, it is entirely normal for some babies to become more wakeful and want to sleep less and nurse more as they age. Fussiness at the breast is also typically normal. In fact, 3-4 months is a classic age for these things to occur. While it could signal a problem, usually it is just normal.
    Last edited by @llli*maddieb; May 19th, 2017 at 05:17 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tongue tied? Latching problem? Not enough Milk?

    Hello thank you for replying!

    1. I don't have one, she has been to the pediatrician just this once in the last week... mainly due to insurance changes etc. She weighed 6 1/2lbs when she was born.
    2. This all has come to a head within the last 3 weeks. I started feeding her a 4oz bottle after nursing every three hours. I just got my breast pump today. It's a Medela. I'm planning to nurse (which doesn't last long as she gets frustrated) and then pump.




    3. Kind of funny. With my youngest sibling my mom had trouble nursing and so come to find out he was tongue tied . When I started to realize my baby wasn't getting enough to eat, that was the first idea that came to my head. I presented that to my pediatrician and they checked it, and she confirmed that she was indeed tongue tied.



    4. She was very scheduled and would eat every three hours . Still hold to that pretty much.

    I know that breast milk is the best for my baby and I am more then willing to try all that I can to make it work! So once again, thank you for replying!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    10,267

    Default Re: Tongue tied? Latching problem? Not enough Milk?

    Hi, thanks for answering my questions.

    1. I don't have one, she has been to the pediatrician just this once in the last week... mainly due to insurance changes etc. She weighed 6 1/2lbs when she was born.
    So you have only the birth weight? No other weights were done even in the first few days? Anywhere?
    What was her weight when you saw the pediatrician this last time, and how many weeks old was baby at that weight check?
    Before you started supplementing, how many times in a day did baby poop and what did they look like? If it was not every day, how much did baby poop?

    Since you started supplementing on the doctor's orders (I assume) they must have wanted baby to be weighed again shortly to see if supplements were the answer (after all, poor gain could mean other problems)- has baby been weighed since you started supplements? If so what was the result? Of not, when is baby getting weighed again?

    2. This all has come to a head within the last 3 weeks. I started feeding her a 4oz bottle after nursing every three hours.
    !!!!Ok. So every three hours would be exactly 9 times a 24 hour day. Right? 9 X 4 equals 36. Are you saying your baby is being given 36 ounces of formula every day, AND nursing 9 times a day? Because 36 ounces would be more than most babies needed, even if they were not nursing at all.

    I just got my breast pump today. It's a Medela. I'm planning to nurse (which doesn't last long as she gets frustrated) and then pump.
    Ok, pumping after nursing makes sense. At this point, if your baby has been supplemented a lot for three weeks, and you have not been pumping, I think it is likely your milk production has been reduced even if it was entirely normal to begin with. Pumping should help it get back up, but it is really important that any over- supplementation stop.

    Given how much your baby is being supplemented, (If I am understanding what you are saying correctly) I am kind of amazed your baby is nursing at all. Of course it is vitally important baby get enough to eat, but a full baby is just not going to have much interest in nursing. Plus with bottles that size, I am afraid your baby is at high risk to start refusing the breast. I strongly suggest that anyone who gives bottles be taught how to do paced bottle feeding.

    3. Kind of funny. With my youngest sibling my mom had trouble nursing and so come to find out he was tongue tied . When I started to realize my baby wasn't getting enough to eat, that was the first idea that came to my head. I presented that to my pediatrician and they checked it, and she confirmed that she was indeed tongue tied.
    Ok. So baby is tongue tied according to pediatrician. Some things to know about tongue tie.
    1) tongue tie is treatable, and if it is harming your babies ability to get enough milk when baby nurses, then it is probably a good idea to have it treated. The treatment is called frenectomy or frenotomy, and is a simple office procedure in the early months. Did the pediatrician say anything about treating the tongue tie?
    2) Some babies have tongue tie and it does NOT harm their ability to transfer milk. This is one of the many reasons why it may be helpful to see a board certified lactation consultant to ascertain if that is really the problem.
    3) Even after needed treatment for tt, some babies require more help learning to latch and transfer milk normally. In other words, even when it is appropriate, frenectomy os not always an "instant fix." This is another reason you might want to be working with a breast feeding specialist, meaning, an IBCLC.

    4. She was very scheduled and would eat every three hours . Still hold to that pretty much.
    Nursing every 3 hours in 24 hours means 9 times a day/ This is enough for some newborns, but is on the low side and would not actually be often enough for many newborns to nurse. Right now, you are supplementing and pumping, and that should not be any more often then you are already doing, in fact I think it likely you are already supplementing too much. Also, pumping is difficult so you can keep that to a number like 8 times in 24 hours in most cases, and of course less than that if baby is nursing well enough that you can reduce supplements. In other words, pumping should basically coordinate with supplements. But, many babies this age or younger nurse more often than 9 times in 24 hours. The norm prior to 3 months is 10-12 times a day or more, and after 3 months it might be 8-12 times or more. Most babies do not nurse on a schedule but rather in clusters. This is actually better because then they can take a longer one time stretch a day (4-6 hours) so mom can get several hours of consecutive sleep, rather than always having to nurse or pump every three hours night and day.

    I know that breast milk is the best for my baby and I am more then willing to try all that I can to make it work! So once again, thank you for replying!
    It is your right to breastfeed your child if you wish to do so. Even if your baby continues to need supplements there is every reason to also breastfeed if that is your wish! Babies do not have gain issues because of breastfeeding or breastmilk. They have these problems when something is wrong and baby cannot get enough milk for some reason. Usually with the appropriate support and intervention, breastfeeding problems can be overcome. Unfortunately, too many doctors simply throw formula a the problem, and that leads to breastfeeding being further undermined. It is not your fault if something went wrong with breastfeeding before. I just hope you can get the knowledgeable breastfeeding support you need now.

    Do you know what breastfeeding assistance resources might be available to you locally?

    info on paced feeding. very important for avoiding over supplementing baby! http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfedbaby.pdf and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH4T70OSzGs
    Last edited by @llli*maddieb; May 20th, 2017 at 03:28 PM.

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