Help! I have 48hrs to get my baby to start gaining weight

[@llli*maddieb]

Do you mean the tongue has a heart shape? With the "tip" of the tongue making the top indent of the heart?

And all I can say is that a baby who has just had 4 ounces to eat is not starving or even hungry. Babies are compelled by instinct to seek to nurse pretty much constantly. There are theories as to why this is, and basically they boil down to the fact that for most of human history when we were nomadic hunter gatherers with little shelter and certainly nowhere an infant could be put down safely, a baby who was held and nursed most of the time lived, and babies who were put down and did not object did not. If you think about infant primates and their moms, they are never put down.

So baby acting like they are starving (by which I assume you mean, crying to nurse (?) after nursing for some time or after a bottle or even if they have fallen asleep and you try to put baby down, that crying to nurse again is normal and not necessarily related to actually needing or wanting anything else to eat.

[@llli*saw30]

Do you mean the tongue has a heart shape? With the "tip" of the tongue making the top indent of the heart?

Yeah, but it's just the small little tip. It's most pronounced when he tries to stick his tongue out, only the little forked tip comes out... and his upper lip has a really obvious frenulum which what I have been reading said is common in conjunction with the tounge ones.

And all I can say is that a baby who has just had 4 ounces to eat is not starving or even hungry. Babies are compelled by instinct to seek to nurse pretty much constantly. There are theories as to why this is, and basically they boil down to the fact that for most of human history when we were nomadic hunter gatherers with little shelter and certainly nowhere an infant could be put down safely, a baby who was held and nursed most of the time lived, and babies who were put down and did not object did not. If you think about infant primates and their moms, they are never put down.

So baby acting like they are starving (by which I assume you mean, crying to nurse (?) after nursing for some time or after a bottle or even if they have fallen asleep and you try to put baby down, that crying to nurse again is normal and not necessarily related to actually needing or wanting anything else to eat.

Well what really freaks me out is when he frantically tries to eat his hands. We were told it was a "late hunger cue" and he looks so desperate when he does it. My husband thinks he acts hungry when he has wind though so that might explain it? Maybe he just registers it as digestive discomfort in either case?

[@llli*maddieb]

Well, the idea that a baby sucking their hands is a hunger cue is something that has always bothered me. Sure, if baby is hungry, they might suck their hands. Of course. But since babies suck on fingers and fists and feet and toes in the womb, where a baby is presumably never hungry, it can not always mean this.

My oldest two had not found their hands at this age. My youngest - I think she came out sucking on her pointer finger. And I mean, she sucked on it so hard and stuck it so far into her mouth she gagged on it sometimes. Sometimes she switched it up and ot would be a thumb or a fist or two fingers or whatever. Who knows why she did this, but it certainly was not because she was hungry. I had overproduction and she was gaining like mad, there was more milk than she could handle, really. That is the problem when there is too much, it's always something. Anyway, away she would suck, if she wasn't nursing, the fingers were in there.

There is lots of information out there about tongue and lip tie. I wish I could point you to some definitive information source, but at this point there really is not much that is definitive. Breastfeeding experts in general agree that tongue tie can mean that the tongue is impeded in its movement, and that can in turn make breastfeeding either painful for mom or make it hard for baby to extract milk, or both. The problem is there are babies with fairly obvious tongue tie that seem to nurse problem free, and others with out anything obvious who struggle. Hopefully you can find someone who understands the combined issue of breastfeeding and tongue tie and who knows how to assess and, if needed, treat the problem. I am curious what your midwife will say, but personally I would not stop there. Something (or a few somethings) is causing breastfeeding to be difficult. Tongue tie is certainly a possibility to be explored.

[@llli*saw30]

Ok, another update. Saw the infant feeding specialist, she was great, watched a feed, asked loads of questions, she recognised the latch was shallow (unlike everyone else who was saying he looked like he was latched well) and she said he definitely has a tongue tie (also a bubble palate), and it's not a submucosal one, just further back than the really obvious ones.

The feeding specialist is trying to get us moved ahead in the queue but at the latest his tie will be cut on the 9th of August.

I am really happy that there is an identifiable problem and a clear path forward. She said whether or not cutting the tie helps she will work with us to improve things too.

[@llli*maddieb]

That sounds very promising - thank you so much for the update.

[@llli*mommal]

Glad you have found someone who thinks they can see a way forward and is willing to work with you! Keep us updated, okay?

[@llli*saw30]

Well our tongue tie appointment was moved ahead (was 2 days ago) but sadly there was no dramatic improvement after it was cut. The latch might sometimes be ok but it slides back a lot and I am not sure it's ever great.

The feeding specialist has suggested some ideas - he might be able to get a better grip on a nipple shield so I could try that, and he might try harder to hold onto a latch if he was getting more milk, so we could try an SNS.

I am totally willing to try both (presumably not at the same time!) and I am going to ramp up my pumping a lot although I can't do it tomorrow because we're taking a day trip to see his grandma.

I feel pretty disappointed that the tongue tie cut didn't help, but still weirdly stubborn about not giving up...

[@llli*saw30]

Well things seemed a bit better yesterday, my son seemed to be swallowing a bit more, still this morning he'd not pooed for 3 days. His last health visitor weigh in on Thursday showed no loss but no gain and I was seriously worried. The health visitor told us to increase his formula and I felt pretty dejected. We didn't increase it because i told the feeding specialist he didnt eat well after his snip and she said wait to see what the midwives weighed him as Saturday (today).

Well today he'd gained 100g, he also did 2 massive poos. So that was good and we don't need to increase his formula. He is now officially over his birth weight.

[@llli*maddieb]

Well it sounds like what you are doing is possibly starting to help...here's hoping that continues! also, I do not think you are being weirdly stubborn...stubborn maybe, but not weirdly so! Stubborn can be a good thing. I have often been amazed how things can sometimes turn around far down the line.

[@llli*saw30]

Well it sounds like what you are doing is possibly starting to help...here's hoping that continues! also, I do not think you are being weirdly stubborn...stubborn maybe, but not weirdly so! Stubborn can be a good thing. I have often been amazed how things can sometimes turn around far down the line.

I think I was really upset because the health visitor told me that if I was supplementing now it would be extremely unlikely for me to ever wean off supplements. If in the end I need to give a couple of bottles a day, so be it, but I don't feel like I've exhausted all my options.

Edit: This is probably an insane thing to be excited about, but I just had to pump because even though I fed the baby and he seemed satisfied (he normally would be awake again by now if not) my boobs still felt full! I am still not getting much pumping (just got a bit over 20ml in 15min) but it would have been 10ml a few days ago. Hopefully I can work up to make the whole of the supplements my own milk at this rate it shouldn't take too long, and then maybe wean off bottles entirely.

I think the HV was wrong about it being too late.