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Thread: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

  1. #1

    Default Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    Hello,
    After a dreadful start to breastfeeding (immense pain, cracking, bleeding, I dreaded yet dreaded moving to formula more, she clicked non stop whilst eating and was v gassy) and being told time and time again my baby couldnt be tongue tied as she was gaining weight well and her tongue could move at the front (by midwives, health visitors and even the consultant at the hospitals tongue tie clinic after I demanded a referral!) we got a posterior tongue tie diagnosed and cut at 8 weeks, things didn't really improve (by about 7 week my nipples had toughened up so it wasn't excruciatinf any more luckily!!) so we saw a LC at 10 weeks who showed us the PTT was still there / hadn't been cut far enough back. At 11 weeks it was cut again, for about 12 hours her feeding was noticeable better, barely any clicking / smacking sounds and just a tiny burp after eating, then she slept for the night and work up more or less back to how she was before with the clicking & taking in air! Fortunately it doesn't really hurt for me now except when she really slides down to the end of my nipple, or if she does what feels like folding my nipple up!

    Since the cut ive tried some oral exercises but she still won't suck a finger if placed in her mouth which means I cant do them properly! Any tips / suggestions / stories from those who have been through this before?

    Thank you! Steph & Flossie xx

  2. #2
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    Jan 2015
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    Default Re: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    So sorry for your rough start! We had a PTT and lip tie revised at 6 weeks (did they check for lip tie, too?). From what I understand, and from what I experienced myself, it can take a while for them to re-learn how to suck appropriately, as they started practicing sucking (the wrong way!) in the womb, so she's formed a habit there - not what I wanted to hear at the time, and I'm sure you are eager, too, for things to be more "normal!" Keep trying to do the exercises, as they really do help - can your SO or other family member help by doing those? I found baby most of the time would refuse to suck on MY finger, but would suck on my husbands or my moms. It's like she knew it was me and only wanted the boob, not my finger!

    Was any bodywork (cranial sacral therapy or chiropractic care, in particular) suggested to you? That might help as well - your baby has been compensating for the tie by using muscles she normally wouldn't in order to nurse efficiently, and body work helps loosen up all the tightness from that so they can be more relaxed and ready to nurse the "right way." My baby, too, didn't seem to have as much trouble sticking her tongue out, and she was gaining great, so I almost thought bodywork wasn't necessary, but after our very first session, she opened her mouth SO wide to smile, wider than Id ever seen her open it, and I realized her whole jaw must've been tightened up.

    Also, are you able to see an IBCLC, preferably one with experience in ties? My IBCLC was the one to diagnose baby's ties, and she helped me afterwards with suggestions on exercises and positions to try, etc.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mama7008 View Post
    So sorry for your rough start! We had a PTT and lip tie revised at 6 weeks (did they check for lip tie, too?). From what I understand, and from what I experienced myself, it can take a while for them to re-learn how to suck appropriately, as they started practicing sucking (the wrong way!) in the womb, so she's formed a habit there - not what I wanted to hear at the time, and I'm sure you are eager, too, for things to be more "normal!" Keep trying to do the exercises, as they really do help - can your SO or other family member help by doing those? I found baby most of the time would refuse to suck on MY finger, but would suck on my husbands or my moms. It's like she knew it was me and only wanted the boob, not my finger!

    Was any bodywork (cranial sacral therapy or chiropractic care, in particular) suggested to you? That might help as well - your baby has been compensating for the tie by using muscles she normally wouldn't in order to nurse efficiently, and body work helps loosen up all the tightness from that so they can be more relaxed and ready to nurse the "right way." My baby, too, didn't seem to have as much trouble sticking her tongue out, and she was gaining great, so I almost thought bodywork wasn't necessary, but after our very first session, she opened her mouth SO wide to smile, wider than Id ever seen her open it, and I realized her whole jaw must've been tightened up.

    Also, are you able to see an IBCLC, preferably one with experience in ties? My IBCLC was the one to diagnose baby's ties, and she helped me afterwards with suggestions on exercises and positions to try, etc.
    Thanks for your reply! We had some cranial osteopathy the week before her second division but have been unable to get there since, I'll call today and try and get an appointment for this week! I did find it helped loosen her up before as she always laid off to her right which she now doesn't do (obviously she still lies that way sometimes but also to her left or straight which she basically never did before!)
    She does have an ULT according to te IBCLC we saw before the second division but in the UK (not sure where you are) the NHS won't touch them as they don't feel they affect feeding, hers is quite right and I can barely see top lip when she's latched even if I try and flip it up but everyone says that's fine. There is one doctor who will laser then but it's about £500 so more than im getting per month in maternity pay right now, and he has very mixed reviews about the care given / aftercare and if treatment given was needed so I'm quite reluctant to go down that route whilst she's gaining weight and generally happy.

    My fiancé is wary of the exercises as she used to gag the second a finger went in, she's improving on that now though and will occasionally do one or two little sucks but she just pulls her tongue back and pushes my finger out whilst clamping her gums down mostly!! I think her tongue is still quite free though as I couldn't feel the ridge when I ran my finger under it this morning (we were advised no stretched as they're too invasive and painful for baby) so that's almost a week post revision, hopefully means it's helped open!!

    Thanks for your advice x

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    Ah, ok. I have heard that lip tie can affect babys ability to create a seal around the breast, leading to them breaking suction (the clicking noise you're hearing) and as a result, they take in more air. I have heard the same is true for tongue tues, though, so I'm not sure which is truly at fault for that. Aside from the clicking/air, are you still having any problems? Is the excess air causing baby any major problems with gas, etc, or is it more just something you are noticing?

    I'm posting a couple links that might b worth the read. The first is an article, written by one of the leading experts on ties here in the US, that explains a bit about how exactly lip ties can affect breastfeeding. You can read it and see if any of it applies to your situation. The second, written by the same doctor, is about how primarily tongue ties are the real issue when there are tie problems in breastfeeding, though lip ties can of course cause problems, too, but primarily dealing with the tongue tie takes care of things most of the time, meaning most of the time, it's not necessary to deal with the lip tie. Might be reassuring to read.

    I will say I have mixed feelings about having had babys ULT revised. She had a pretty severe tie according to the doctor, but now after revision she still flanges her lip the same way, i.e. never! She just has a really small, short upper lip, so I'm not sure the restriction he was seeing was from a bad tie or just the way my baby's body was made. I still have almost constant pain because she has such a shallow latch from this, so the revision didn't help in that respect. If you and baby are able to have a comfortable breastfeeding relationship with only the tongue tie being clipped, I personally would just leave it at that and enjoy your babe.

    To the gagging - that's because of her tongue tie. When babies are tied, their tongue doesn't touch the top of their mouth nor the back - swallow and feel how your tongue moves up and back, making contact with your palate (might be helpful in explaining this to your fiancé to have him do the same) - baby's tongue never did that, so her gag reflex is EXTREMELY sensitive. Nothing has touched back there before now to desensitize it. The suck exercises will actually help desensitize her palate/tongue so that she doesn't gag as easily. This will be helpful with nursing so she won't gag on your nipple with a deep latch, and will also help when she starts solids so she doesn't always gag when food reaches the back of her mouth.

    http://www.drghaheri.com/blog/2014/3...-breastfeeding

    http://www.drghaheri.com/blog/2015/1...-more-to-blame

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    I have a question about this topic! My son has a tongue tie. The nurses and pediatrician both called it to our attention in the hospital, but we didn't do anything about it because it wasn't causing me any discomfort and he appeared to be nursing normally. He's 5 weeks tomorrow and gaining weight like a champ. (8 lb 9oz at birth and 12 lbs and some change now) I am still pain free from day one. HOWEVER.... In the last week or two it seems his feedings are getting closer together and when he nurses there is a lot of clicking/slipping with his latch. He is also gulping in a lot of air and has some gas after nursing. Is clipping the tongue tie something that is recommended after 5 weeks? I don't want to cause any trouble since he's been doing so well until now. Also I go back to work in 3 weeks so I won't be able to nurse as regularly (I plan to pump at work though- I EBF'ed my first for 10 months). Just not sure if it's something that is too late to worry about and if he'll grow out of the issues or if I wait too long could it cause supply issues, etc down the road? On a side note the side lying position seems to cause the least amount of slipping/clicking when nursing!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    I would recommend reposting your question as a new thread to hopefully catch the attention of the more experienced posters. I'm a FTM, so not very experienced beyond the research I did when my baby was tied. She had her revisions done at 6 weeks, and I was part of a Facebook Tongue Tie Support Group where babies 6 months, 8 months, a year, even 4-5 yr olds were having the procedure done, so I don't think there's ever a time where it's too late, per se. You just don't want to wait if you are having problems.

    Now to the issues you are concerned about - it *might* be that he's starting to struggle with his tongue tie a bit, but it could be a number of other things - 6 week growth spurt bringing feedings closer together, fast letdown causing clicking/gulping/slipping as he tries to keep up, etc. A few more details are probably needed, so again I suggest posting as a new thread to get some help!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*babyluv510 View Post
    I have a question about this topic! My son has a tongue tie. The nurses and pediatrician both called it to our attention in the hospital, but we didn't do anything about it because it wasn't causing me any discomfort and he appeared to be nursing normally. He's 5 weeks tomorrow and gaining weight like a champ. (8 lb 9oz at birth and 12 lbs and some change now) I am still pain free from day one. HOWEVER.... In the last week or two it seems his feedings are getting closer together and when he nurses there is a lot of clicking/slipping with his latch. He is also gulping in a lot of air and has some gas after nursing. Is clipping the tongue tie something that is recommended after 5 weeks? I don't want to cause any trouble since he's been doing so well until now. Also I go back to work in 3 weeks so I won't be able to nurse as regularly (I plan to pump at work though- I EBF'ed my first for 10 months). Just not sure if it's something that is too late to worry about and if he'll grow out of the issues or if I wait too long could it cause supply issues, etc down the road? On a side note the side lying position seems to cause the least amount of slipping/clicking when nursing!
    While TT surgery gets more complicated the older a person is, TT treatment can be done at any age, including adulthood. 5 weeks is certainly not too late and would still be a simple, outpatient procedure without anesthesia. However, it is probably important it only be done if necessary. IN a case where baby is gaining well and nursing does not hurt, I am not sure a frenotomy is the best option.

    In the last week or two it seems his feedings are getting closer together
    How close now and how close before? There is nothing out of the ordinary about a 5 week old nursing more often than he did as a 2 week old.
    and when he nurses there is a lot of clicking/slipping with his latch. He is also gulping in a lot of air and has some gas after nursing.
    Is there a fast letdown, do you think? That would be indicated by what you are seeing and is something that is much more common than a TT that requires treatment. Aside from sidelying, which often helps with fast letdown, have you tried laid back nursing positions as well?

    However, I would agree that IF there is a TT issue, having that at the very least assessed by someone who knows what they are doing is probably a good idea. Is that something you can do?

    More on TT and how it can be over treated sometimes: http://www.nancymohrbacher.com/blog/...e-and-lip-ties

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    Default Re: Clicking / smacking still after tongue tie snipped

    Thank you for the article! I can definitely see this being overdiagnosed. I have my 1 month check up with the pediatrician Monday and will see if I can get in with the lactation consultant as well. I am for sure against doing any type of procedure unless it's 100% necessary. Which is why I let it be until now. Feedings are now anywhere from 1-3 hours apart where they were typically 3 hours. I don't think I have a low supply right now. I am pumping an extra 4 oz that I freeze in the mornings after my first morning feeding. I pump anywhere from 4-5.5 oz. if I pump for a bottle before an expected feeding. It could be overactive letdown I suppose as he latches and sucks fine at first but after let down he seems to have more trouble. I have tried laid back position and it seems to help a little but side lying is by far the best position so far. I also will try to relatch after I feel the initial rush of my letdown but that doesn't really improve anything. He is also taking a bottle just fine. I don't see the slipping or clicking or sputtering when my husband feeds via bottle. I think as long as his weight gain continues and i am pain free we'll try to see what other solutions we may have! I'll still address it with the doc Monday and follow up! I just don't want to be caught off guard with supply issues in a few weeks once I return to work because of something I should have caught earlier. I guess I'm just confused because I don't have any symptoms other than he appears to be struggling when nursing! Thanks again for the info.

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