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Thread: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    24,794

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    One thing that a lot of anti-CIO moms have learned is that if you're having sleep issues with your LO, don't share them with your pro-CIO friends/family/pediatrician. You're not going to get anything but if you do!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    18

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    You're so right, it can feel very isolating, I really need to meet some like-minded people but they seem few and far between here (I'm in the UK). And if you're not a confident person, as I am definitely not, you can find yourself doubting your decisions all the time when everyone around you is telling you you're wrong.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    10,754

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    Mamawin, I am glad you posted, I think it is important to hear the perspective of someone who sleep trained and found it a good experience. If sleep training worked for you and your family, great. I am happy for you. But I do not think all the things you are asserting about sleep and sleep training are entirely factual.
    A good routine for a baby your age is bedtime between 6 and 8, wake roughly 10 - 12 hours later.
    Says who? has this been studied, and babies who instead are asleep for the night at 5:30, or 9pm- what did that study show was the difference? What about the baby who slept 9 hours, or 13?

    And where does needing baby to be asleep by 8 pm- or else- leave the family where mom is not home from work until 7:30pm? Or 8:30? And I do not think it is true that all sleep experts agree that a child has to be taught to sleep. Research comparing sleep trained kids to non shows no difference in sleep pattern just a year or so later, I forget how long, it may be less. The point is, any difference in sleep patterns has been shown to be temporary.

    If it is biologically natural and normal for an 8 month old baby cycle in and out of sleep quickly, which I agree it is, and babies (unlike adults and older kids) are incapable of soothing themselves to sleep, which I also believe is usually true, how is it needed to train them earlier than they are capable, to do something that is not natural no matter how it is done?

    I do not think respecting my child's natural need to be comforted to sleep is taking the easy way out. Since breastfeeding is natural and normal biologically speaking, and formula feeding is not, I would disagree with that analogy.

    pickle.pie please look at the link I sent you. That is a UK website. Poke around, there is interesting research based information on there. Here it is again: https://www.isisonline.org.uk/how_babies_sleep/

    I also suggest the book Kiss Me! by pediatrician Carlos Gonzalez. A great read that covers many of the 'concerns' facing parents of young children that will help you separate fact from fiction when it comes to parenting advice. Translated into English by a UK publisher if I am not mistaken.

    When in doubt, I imagine the early humans. I don't have to be an anthropologist to know that the only thing that makes sense is that mothers slept beside their children and nursed them and comforted them when they woke so the infant did not scream and cry and awaken other members of the tribe and attract predators.

    The way I look at it, humans have been amazingly biologically successful, without the aid of sleep trainers of any stripe. So, to sleep trainers I say, no thank you.
    Last edited by @llli*maddieb; January 12th, 2015 at 02:27 PM.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    101

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    Maddieb - I knew my post might be met with some resistance and I'm ok with that. You and most of the other frequent contributors to this forum have very similar views on sleep, so I thought a new perspective would be good.

    People seem to think that when it comes to sleep the options are to comfort your child every time they wake or put them in a room and let them cry for hours. That's simply not true, as evidenced by my experience, so I wanted to share that.

    If it works for you to comfort your child every time s/he wakes up then great. It doesn't sound like it was working for the OP, so doing something different may be in order for her. Knowing some basic facts about sleep (i.e. sleep cycles, light wakings, etc.) can help her make an informed decision for herself. I also wanted her and others reading this thread to know that there are breastfeeding mama's out there who do some gentle sleep training and continue their breastfeeding relationship. (It should be noted that I still feed my daughter once or twice per night. She now wakes when she's really hungry, not just at the end of each sleep cycle, so I am more than happy to feed her at those times).

    It's a nice concept to imagine what our ancestors may have or have not done with their child(ren) but we don't live in their world. For example, our ancestors did not have to get up and drive an hour each way to work. For me, that commute was becoming extremely dangerous due to the levels of sleep deprivation I was dealing with. So, again for me, I decided that allowing my child to fuss a little bit was ok as it meant she'd have a mama who was well-rested enough to drive herself safely to and from work. A long time ago, someone posted on here how they were so sleep deprived that they'd be in two accidents. I think that's absurd - to allow oneself to get to that point of sleep deprivation because they're afraid of the concept of sleep training.

    It may not seem like it, but I really am not trying to engage in a debate about sleep training. I truly just want to offer a different perspective than what is commonly posted on here. You can be a loving, bfing mama and choose to sleep train.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    184

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    Will your baby take a pacifier? If she just needs a few sucks then she probably isn't really hungry, just needing to suck something for comfort... maybe a pacifier would help. If she's really hungry, she'll probably wake & fuss & let you know. But maybe a pacifier would help to cut down on the nursing frequency overnight. Just a thought

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    18

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    I didn't want to cause a debate, yes it is good to have different perspectives and opinions and I agree, very gentle techniques like the No Cry Sleep Solution can be a good alternative to the black and white of CIO and total sleep deprivation. But at the moment, she gets very upset very quickly and it escalates beyond fussing almost immediately.

    She's never been interested in pacifiers unfortunately, just chews them up and spits them out!

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    688

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    There was something else I read recently on bedtimes being cultural and it said that countries that routinely co-sleep e.g Japan have a later average bedtime as families tend to go to bed together. I wonder where on earth I read it so I could link it!

    It can be really lonely if you are the only person you know making these choices. I'm quite lucky that we have a 'hippy mum group' (as DH calls it) locally!

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    18

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*bsua65 View Post
    There was something else I read recently on bedtimes being cultural and it said that countries that routinely co-sleep e.g Japan have a later average bedtime as families tend to go to bed together. I wonder where on earth I read it so I could link it!
    That's really interesting, I will do a bit of research myself and see what I can find.

    I could really really do with a hippy mum group here!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    688

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    I'm in the UK too Pickle pie I found my hippy mums mainly via babywearing aka using a sling. If you are interested in baby wearing or even just asking if there's a more AP style group in your area if may be worth seeing if there's a sling meet in your area. There may also be some AP Facebook groups that could hook you up locally to done like minded mums!

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Co-sleeping - late bedtime issues and frequent waking

    Oh I don't suppose you happen to be anywhere near Hertfordshire?? Very unlikely I know!

    We babywear all the time, it was the only place she was even remotely likely to be happy for the first 4 or 5 months! I have been to a class where you dance with your baby in a sling, and I did meet a couple of more like-minded mums but no-one quite as hippy as I am! I will have a look for sling meets and Facebook groups too. The problem is my LO hates the car and I can't bear driving with her crying, so it's been hard to find anything really local

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