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Thread: Stinky docs gave stinky advice.

  1. #1

    Default Stinky docs gave stinky advice.

    Hi Moms!

    I'm a FTM, who recently moved from California to Taiwan. My EBF 6 week old DD has, in the last week, become extremely hard to latch on, and suddenly stopped giving consistent hunger cues (she used to lick her hands, eh-eh, left/right head movement, and a specific kind of pant/fast breathing). She'll give some or no cues, and occasionally just belt out with a full blast wail, and the horrid affair is drawn out with the latching difficulty (she recently squirms HARD until mid feed, I often have to just clamp her down, and if I can, hold her head still). I just had my first PP menses, so I'm hoping that was the cause.

    I'm primarily worried about her recent increase in vomiting; one breast produces more milk than the other, and this is the one that seems to be the majority cause of upchucking. I have a firehose OALD, so I try to let the first one go into a towel or something. I'm not sure if it's helping

    I haven't been getting very good IRL advice; one mother in law never had kids; my husband's mother said she formula fed because BF is too much bother and bragged how she drank a pot of coffee every morning she was prego (she's daft), sister in law also formula fed. I'd asked an ER doctor we saw for DD's flu-related fever, he said her stomach was adjusting to the milk volume (?). Later asked the pediatrician when taking DD in for a checkup, he said I needed to feed her less often (???). They'd also told me her rash/acne were a result of allergies to something, although I suspect my own oral allergy is at play. My own mother said my sister and I slept thru the night and were relatively untroublesome, so I can only curse myself for that one.

    Prior to leaving the confinement hotel (3 weeks old), DD only spit up a bit here and there. The nursery there fed her 100ml+ every four hours, when we got home, I was feeding her on-demand every 45-90 mins. She now feeds every 1.25-2.5 hours, and can handle the forceful letdown like a champ.

    I'm considering going back to pumping the monster breast (I know pumping isn't the best yardstick, but the left always puts out 50-60% more than the right), and feeding DD exclusively off the other. There's only one milk bank in Taiwan (although, if you qualify to donate, they pretty much cover all costs, from shipping to bags). Our freezer doesn't much space left, so I might just put it in my husband's coffee instead.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Stinky docs gave stinky advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*charcustom View Post
    Hi Moms!

    I'm a FTM, who recently moved from California to Taiwan. My EBF 6 week old DD has, in the last week, become extremely hard to latch on, and suddenly stopped giving consistent hunger cues (she used to lick her hands, eh-eh, left/right head movement, and a specific kind of pant/fast breathing). She'll give some or no cues, and occasionally just belt out with a full blast wail, and the horrid affair is drawn out with the latching difficulty (she recently squirms HARD until mid feed, I often have to just clamp her down, and if I can, hold her head still). I just had my first PP menses, so I'm hoping that was the cause.
    Hello, charcustom! Congratulations on your six-week-old, and also on your new country! Your world must be filled with so much excitement all at once!

    You provided a lot of info. I have to run, so can't respond to it all, but thought I'd respond to what I could while here. In my own experience, hunger cues have changed alot over time. I think this may be the case for many mom and baby pairs. I particularly struggled once my little one stopped rooting, and started putting her hands in her mouth / things in her mouth for fun/exploration, rather than just for 'nurse!'. I would recommend just trying your best to roll with it, and see if you can't pick up on some new evolving cues. You can also just preemptively offer, too. I find that this second approach works really well for us. But I also feel like, as time went by, I sort of gained a more intuitive understanding of when little one wants to nurse... I don't even know if I could describe current hunger cues, now, you know? I just kind of know. But it wasn't always that way! I don't know if that helps.

    I also wanted to offer that lochia (after birth bleeding) can last up to six weeks post birth. So bleeding up until this point doesn't necessarily mean you've had a period. You know your body best, though, and maybe its just something you can talk with your OB about?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Stinky docs gave stinky advice.

    Yea it sounds like the Docs there do give stinky advice and the nursery feeding instead of letting you breastfeed is stinky too.

    Good to hear she is latching, I would say nurse her as often as she will let you and ignore all the stinky advice. Sounds like you are actually doing fairly well despite the lack of support from family and the medical establishment.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Stinky docs gave stinky advice.

    I don't know if that helps.
    It does. Trying to acclimate to going through the laundry list of "malfunctions", and then trying to logic out whether DD has a legit issue, or I just need to hang out with her! She's definitely worth it though.

    I also wanted to offer that lochia (after birth bleeding) can last up to six weeks post birth. So bleeding up until this point doesn't necessarily mean you've had a period. You know your body best, though, and maybe its just something you can talk with your OB about?
    Yup, I asked my OB. We decided it's a period after he checked me out etc. I was pretty bummed, as I'd read BF has a tendency to suppress menstruation, and I've been rather amenorrheal since puberty. Can menses affect the flavor of the milk? That was my only guess.

    As far as latch problems, it was only serious those first few days postpartum, all the nurses telling me nursing wasn't supposed to hurt, etc, when it turned out I had a cracked nipple. There is so much hurt in the ladyparts no one ever told me about, but thank goodness for Dr. Google, acetaminophen, and laxatives.

    I've been inundated with superstitious/uneducated advice since pregnancy. Some of it would just crack you up. Some of it I'm not down with, like random stranger old women grabbing my daughter and nagging me about how it's too cold, and I ought to put her in pants, socks, and four coats. I just force a smile and say I don't understand Chinese.
    Last edited by @llli*charcustom; November 6th, 2014 at 11:39 AM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Stinky docs gave stinky advice.

    Menses can cause a temporary drop in supply. Its possible that the flow changed from what she was accustomed to and she was frustrated by a slower flow? As for the flavor of the breastmilk I don't believe menses effect that, but what we eat does. If you've recently moved and your diet has changed the flavor may be different.

    Allergies can cause rash/acne, and spitting up. It might be worth your while to try cutting out all dairy for two to four weeks and seeing if the clears things up. I cut out dairy because my daughter was having horrible screaming in pain gas. And now I'm starting on an elimination diet because she still has some allergy symptoms.

    Best of luck!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Stinky docs gave stinky advice.

    My EBF 6 week old DD has, in the last week, become extremely hard to latch on, and suddenly stopped giving consistent hunger cues (she used to lick her hands, eh-eh, left/right head movement, and a specific kind of pant/fast breathing). She'll give some or no cues, and occasionally just belt out with a full blast wail
    Loss of reliable hunger cues is normal. Newborns give instinctive cues, e.g. mouthing, moving the head to search for the nipple. But instinctive cues don't last. Older babies learn more efficient ways of getting their moms' attention, and a full-out wail is a great way to get mom to come running!

    and the horrid affair is drawn out with the latching difficulty (she recently squirms HARD until mid feed, I often have to just clamp her down, and if I can, hold her head still).
    This sounds more like a reaction to OALD. When mom has a firehose letdown, babies fuss because they aren't into the discomfort that they know is coming. Instead of holding her head, try using reclined nursing positions. Reclined positions have 2 advantages. First, they enlist gravity to slow the flow of milk to the baby, making nursing more comfortable for her. Second, they hold the baby on the breast, which reduces the amount she can pull away. Holding the baby's head is usually counterproductive because infants will reflexively rear back when they are touched on the back of the head.


    I'm primarily worried about her recent increase in vomiting; one breast produces more milk than the other, and this is the one that seems to be the majority cause of upchucking. I have a firehose OALD, so I try to let the first one go into a towel or something. I'm not sure if it's helping
    Is she a happy spitter? If so, spit-up is not something to worry about. It's a laundry problem, not a health problem, and it's happening because of the way babies are made, not because of the OALD (though OALD does exacerbate the underlying tendency to spit up).

    Babies spit up because they have short esophageal tubes, because the sphincters at the top of their stomachs are weak and underdeveloped, and because they spend most of their time lying down. It's very easy for part of the baby's meal to slip past the weak sphincter and flow up the short esophagus, especially when the baby's tummy happens to be very full due to a fast letdown.

    Spit-up improves with time, as the sphincter's tone improves, the esophagus lengthens, and the baby spends more time upright. One way to deal with spit-up now is to keep your baby upright after feedings. Wearing your baby in a sling is a great way to do this, and it also cuts down on nosy comments from "helpful" nye-nyes (grannies).


    I'd asked an ER doctor we saw for DD's flu-related fever, he said her stomach was adjusting to the milk volume (?).
    Nope, see above!

    Later asked the pediatrician when taking DD in for a checkup, he said I needed to feed her less often (???)
    Nope, ignore!

    They'd also told me her rash/acne were a result of allergies to something,
    Baby acne is not caused by allergies. The leading hypothesis is that it is caused by a last flush of maternal hormones leaving the baby's body. If the baby's rash is NOT baby acne, then allergies may be responsible- but these are not necessarily to anything in the baby's diet (and by extension, in your diet). It could be to something in the baby's environment, like the detergent on her clothes.

    I'm considering going back to pumping the monster breast (I know pumping isn't the best yardstick, but the left always puts out 50-60% more than the right), and feeding DD exclusively off the other.
    Probably not necessary, though donation is certainly one of the nicest things you can do when excess milk is a problem. The oversupply will calm down in time. Particularly if you avoid pumping in addition to nursing- which it sounds like something you are doing on a routine basis...?

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