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Thread: Baby #2 nursing terribly!

  1. #11
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    Jan 2012
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    Default Re: Baby #2 nursing terribly!

    Thanks again, Meg! The right side, which is a bit swollen still, is the more painful side. It doesn't seem to be swollen now, or at least not as much -- not as noticeable as last week. I would say it's not as swollen now, but when it gets scabbed up (say if he hasn't nursed on that side for 3-4 hours) it is a little bit hardened to a rounder shape and hurts more when he latches, even if I use a washcloth to soak it first. I try to limit pumping to once or twice a day -- usually at night when he's too frantic to latch him on so we give him a bottle. If he's too frantic, I get a bit trigger shy and can't bring myself to try to latch him on the right. He's gotten fairly good at latching on the left and I can usually shove a lot of breast in there. Doing it on the right is harder -- he either closes his mouth too fast, won't open it wide enough, struggles once he gets on, pops off, moves his head around to a shallow latch (meaning I have to start over) or a combination of those things, plus a flailing arm and kicking legs, and attempts to roll himself into a ball position.

    I am trying the sandwiching on both sides. He is definitely getting milk on both sides. IBCLC has me taking fenugreek to get the flow faster on the right side, and I'm actually thinking it's causing a fast flow, because he keeps pulling his head back a bit on both sides (also not helping!). The initial pain is awful, but provided it subsides and he doesn't move around too much, it's not too bad -- I just have to use two hands to hold him on and stop him from jerking his head back.

    I am trying to be patient and hope he'll get it, but I do feel guilty that he's been called every name in the book because I'm getting frustrated with being hurt with every latch and that he just won't "cooperate" (I say that realizing he's a newborn and can't help it, but he seems to be retaining the info a bit for the left side since he opens wider and latches more easily). Also, my sister is visiting and constantly criticizing that I've been on the couch nonstop, neglecting my toddler, that this is "a choice" and I don't have to do it, etc., so I just overall am feeling a bit overwhelmed and beat!
    Mom to my sweet little "Pooper," born 10/12/11, and "Baby Brother," born 6/23/2014, and married to heavy metal husband. Working more than full-time, making healthy vegetarian meals for family, and trying to keep up with exercise routine.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Baby #2 nursing terribly!

    IBCLC has me taking fenugreek to get the flow faster on the right side, and I'm actually thinking it's causing a fast flow, because he keeps pulling his head back a bit on both sides (also not helping!).
    If this, or anything your IBCLC suggests, appears to not be helping, I suggest discussing it with her. Breastfeeding itself, and thus, the world of helping mothers overcome breastfeeding issues, is not an exact science. Sometimes things are tried just to see if it will help-if it does not, these can be discontinued or tweaked.

    I have found the flailing arms and kicking legs is often helped by different positioning. Laid back or sidelying, or just anything different. Rolling into a ball is interesting. Do you mean, like curing his body up?

    but when it gets scabbed up (say if he hasn't nursed on that side for 3-4 hours) it is a little bit hardened to a rounder shape and hurts more when he latches, even if I use a washcloth to soak it first.
    Is the soaking a suggestion by your IBCLC to prevent the scab from being torn off or some other reason? Are you using lanolin or another nipple cream? Scabbing is a sign of healing, so scabs can be a sign things are going in the right direction.

    I try to limit pumping to once or twice a day -- usually at night when he's too frantic to latch him on so we give him a bottle. If he's too frantic, I get a bit trigger shy and can't bring myself to try to latch him on the right.
    But can you start on left and then go to right? pumping is probably ok as long as it is not causing further swelling or injury, but since pumping CAN cause injury & swelling you just might want to look at that.

    Also, my sister is visiting and constantly criticizing that I've been on the couch nonstop, neglecting my toddler, that this is "a choice" and I don't have to do it, etc.,
    I assume your sister is there to help, as there are few other legitimate reasons to be visiting a mom with a newborn. So I would suggest, when the criticism starts, give her something to do. Maybe your garbage needs to be taken out and the bathroom scrubbed and the refrigerator cleaned. If she balks at those maybe she can take your toddler to the park.

    I think it might be helpful to think about the irrationality of the oddly common idea that caring for and feeding a newborn is less important than playing with a toddler. I assume by 'neglect' your sister does not mean your older child is not being properly fed and housed or you are not interacting with her. A mother can interact with two (or more) children at once, even if she is on the couch nursing one of them.
    Last edited by @llli*lllmeg; July 5th, 2014 at 04:39 PM.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Baby #2 nursing terribly!

    I have mentioned most of the issues to the IBCLC -- she told me to cut back on the fenugreek, so I'm trying to cut back a little each day. I did that once before and my supply didn't seem affected once I was off of it entirely.

    I have found the flailing arms and kicking legs is often helped by different positioning. Laid back or sidelying, or just anything different. Rolling into a ball is interesting. Do you mean, like curing his body up?
    Yes, he tries rolling into something like a fetal position. That's one of his new things, as is pulling his head back. So getting kicked in the non-nursing breast (have to cover it up), he keeps turning his head back and forth, whacking me with his arm -- this is all while I try to latch him. DH has to hold his flailing arm most of the time. Luckily he works from home!

    I never got sidelying with my daughter and would love to get there with this guy, but I think we need to see a lot of improvement with latch and healing before I try that. I do try to do some laid-back on the couch. We've mostly been doing cross-cradle, just until I feel healed. Even football was trouble for us.

    Is the soaking a suggestion by your IBCLC to prevent the scab from being torn off or some other reason? Are you using lanolin or another nipple cream? Scabbing is a sign of healing, so scabs can be a sign things are going in the right direction.
    Actually, I think it was suggested by mommal on here, so I tried it just first thing in the morning to limit the pain. The scabs usually disappear as he nurses (they may be there but soft and not noticeable??) and then come back when he has a long break. I am using the non-prescription APNO made by my IBCLC. I think it's anti-fungal and anti-bacterial. I use that after every feeding. Plus also using lanolin sometimes. I also soaked in salt water once today. They don't look as badly scabbed and damaged as the past week or so, but are not getting much better.

    But can you start on left and then go to right? pumping is probably ok as long as it is not causing further swelling or injury, but since pumping CAN cause injury & swelling you just might want to look at that.
    We've definitely tried that. He just gets really frantic almost immediately after nursing or waking, so last night he was too insane for me to risk injury. Every night I hope we won't need a bottle and we'll be okay.

    I assume your sister is there to help, as there are few other legitimate reasons to be visiting a mom with a newborn. So I would suggest, when the criticism starts, give her something to do. Maybe your garbage needs to be taken out and the bathroom scrubbed and the refrigerator cleaned. If she balks at those maybe she can take your toddler to the park.

    I think it might be helpful to think about the irrationality of the oddly common idea that caring for and feeding a newborn is less important than playing with a toddler. I assume by 'neglect' your sister does not mean your older child is not being properly fed and housed or you are not interacting with her. A mother can interact with two (or more) children at once, even if she is on the couch nursing one of them.
    I have been passing off baby to her whenever I need to go to the bathroom or things. She just is giving her unwanted opinion! I really had her here to play with my toddler, which is the only reason we've really had family visiting. My toddler hasn't complained much about mommy being unavailable. I do feel guilty, but hope it's going to turn around soon. No, toddler is well cared for -- Daddy doing most of it. But I try to get away from the baby even for a few minutes a day to play with her and get a short break from the nursing and screaming!
    Mom to my sweet little "Pooper," born 10/12/11, and "Baby Brother," born 6/23/2014, and married to heavy metal husband. Working more than full-time, making healthy vegetarian meals for family, and trying to keep up with exercise routine.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Baby #2 nursing terribly!

    Ok, it sounds like things are improving but slowly. Everything you are doing sounds good to me. I don't have any other suggestions for you right now, but I would urge you to keep talking to your LC and working on that latch and hang in there!

    I was being tongue in cheek, of course I know your toddler is being well cared for. My point was, STOP FEELING GULITY as you have NOTHING to feel guilt about! Every first child who has a younger sibling has had to live through the feelings of no longer being mommy's only child any more. Every child with a younger sibling has to live through the feelings of not being the baby anymore. These are not peasant feelings, yet we all survive quite nicely. The fact is, a newborn needs mommy more, much much more. Calling this normal, healthy family situation "neglect' is just awful. It's not. On top of that, it appears your sister is more upset by the new baby than your toddler!

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Baby #2 nursing terribly!

    Okay, thank you! I will email the LC tomorrow -- I don't have much to report to her. He really has trouble latching on that one side, but I'm not sure any additional visits from her right now will help. I think I'm approaching it in the same way she showed me. It definitely hurt when she had him latch on, as well!

    My sister went home, so that is good. I like having people here to help, but it's also more annoying in a lot of ways.
    Mom to my sweet little "Pooper," born 10/12/11, and "Baby Brother," born 6/23/2014, and married to heavy metal husband. Working more than full-time, making healthy vegetarian meals for family, and trying to keep up with exercise routine.

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