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Thread: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

  1. #21
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    Dec 2013
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    Now, about your supply & baby getting enough concerns.

    Baby is being weighed tomorrow, yes? So you will have a better idea of what is going on there so please report back to us and let us know how that goes.

    Try to remember that a baby eats to live, to move, and to grow. A baby this age is not moving all that much so lets leave that aside for a minute.

    A baby might not be taking in enough to GROW entirely normally and that is how we know something may be wrong. This is why a baby is weighed. But a baby is not going to be close to being dangerously underfed and still be growing anywhere close to normally, as your baby has been. So while I think watching output is smart, I suggest not obsessing over it. If a baby this age is pooping ~daily there is little chance baby is not getting at least enough milk to at least live no matter how little baby pees. many babies stop pooping daily or anything like it by this age and are doing just fine.

    Milk production does not disappear overnight, and it does not come back overnight either. But a mother who has established a normal milk production in the first couple of months (as you clearly have, imo) is not going to have all that much trouble bringing milk production back to 'enough' IF it slips below normal due to a poorly nursing baby.

    Hope that helps. It's kind of late here and I am not sure I am making sense!
    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    Now, about your supply & baby getting enough concerns.

    Baby is being weighed tomorrow, yes? So you will have a better idea of what is going on there so please report back to us and let us know how that goes.

    Try to remember that a baby eats to live, to move, and to grow. A baby this age is not moving all that much so lets leave that aside for a minute.

    A baby might not be taking in enough to GROW entirely normally and that is how we know something may be wrong. This is why a baby is weighed. But a baby is not going to be close to being dangerously underfed and still be growing anywhere close to normally, as your baby has been. So while I think watching output is smart, I suggest not obsessing over it. If a baby this age is pooping ~daily there is little chance baby is not getting at least enough milk to at least live no matter how little baby pees. many babies stop pooping daily or anything like it by this age and are doing just fine.

    Milk production does not disappear overnight, and it does not come back overnight either. But a mother who has established a normal milk production in the first couple of months (as you clearly have, imo) is not going to have all that much trouble bringing milk production back to 'enough' IF it slips below normal due to a poorly nursing baby.

    Hope that helps. It's kind of late here and I am not sure I am making sense!
    This helps a lot! and makes a lot of sense. I will definitely share how it goes. On my scale at home she weighed 11 lbs 4 oz on tues and 11lbs 2oz on wed (after she took her poo).

    so say baby is sleepy one day and doesnt nurse a lot. will that make a big impact on supply. should i pump to replace eat feed missed or is it ok to wait and see how my supply seems the next day.

  2. #22
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    May 2006
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    One day of decreased nursing frequency generally does not have a big impact on production, unless the baby isn't nursing at all. In general, a mom does not need to pump to make up for a low-frequency day. But if you are concerned, doing some pumping isn't likely to cause problems and may have a beneficial effect. Just don't overdo it, and pump yourself into an excess supply!
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  3. #23

    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    Ok lets see what the weight was today. So you saw two different IBCLCs- one saw the tt and sent you to Dr. Kotlaw (who is well respected adn I think would want to know your experience, btw. At least, I would hope he would.) And now it is a different IBCLC saying the issue is reflux, and both are saying normal intake per nursing session is about 4 ounces or more? And each did how many before and after nursing weight checks?

  4. #24
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    Dec 2013
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    Ok lets see what the weight was today. So you saw two different IBCLCs- one saw the tt and sent you to Dr. Kotlaw (who is well respected adn I think would want to know your experience, btw. At least, I would hope he would.) And now it is a different IBCLC saying the issue is reflux, and both are saying normal intake per nursing session is about 4 ounces or more? And each did how many before and after nursing weight checks?

    Sorry for the late update. So she weighed 11 6.9 oz at her doctor's office. Its not the exact same scale as the last appt as we were seen in a different room. But its exactly 7 days later (weight at last doc appt was 10lbs 13.8 oz). I had just fed baby - have no idea but maybe she took 1 or 2 ounces.

    Dr. said he does not believe she has silent reflux that needs treatment. He said you would expect a baby in pain from reflux be fussy. And since she had gained so well in a week, he didnt buy the shes limiting her feeds b/c she is in pain argument

    After the doctor appt, I sent my husband and baby to a friends house with a bottle of expressed milk so they could practice. Apparently she took a few sips, which is progress. When they got home it had been 4 hours since I last fed her. we have never been separated since I gave birth to her for more than 20 or 30 minutes

    Poor baby, she latched on, and sucked vigorously with her eyes closed for 10-15 minutes. She stayed on for every letdown. I heard huge gulps and worried maybe she was swallowing some air. When she was done, she still seemed to be sleeping so I just kept her very still. I didnt want her to spit up everything. She slept for like 10 minutes and then I gently burped her and a decent size burp came up. She never stays on that long and rarely stays on for the letdown, unless I am really "empty". I have no doubt she took in mre than 2 oz.

    Ok here's the thing. I really felt like I was losing my supply over the weekend. There were times I could see the baby sucking continuiously without pause without swallowing. She was head butting my breasts at times. She would come off and I would squeeze my breast and there was a trickle of milk so I know milk was in there. Then other times there was finally a letdown, and she would pull off! It was not forceful at all.

    So I did pump a few days this past week. I thought it would be good to get some milk in the freezer for practice bottles and my first day back to work. Lets say I pumped 3 or 4 days out of 7. I pumped 1x a day for most of the days and perhaps 2x on one day. And now my breasts are getting really full and let letdown is spraying forcefully. So not sure what that tells us. Did this additional pumping impact her weight gain by making the milk for accessible to her? Mind you with me being this full, she is sometimes only staying on for 1 minute.

    Question - if baby can stimulate a letdown is that all that matters in terms of milk removal that drives supply?

  5. #25
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    Oct 2012
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    So almost 9 oz of weight gain in a week? That's a lot! Clearly baby is getting enough milk! Do you feel comfortable with the doctor's opinion that baby is not suffering from reflux? It seems to fit with what you have been feeling as well.

    It sounds like even doing a relatively modest amount of pumping has kicked your supply into high gear. I wonder whether you are used to a certain degree of oversupply, so that when your supply starts regulating back towards normal, it feels like undersupply to you. Also, remember that sometimes baby suckles at the breast without really wanting milk - so-called "comfort nursing."

    I don't know about the milk being more accessible when you were pumping. The episode you describe of her sucking vigorously for 10-15 minutes, gulping down the milk etc makes it sound like she has no difficulty extracting milk. And baby extracting milk is what matters when it comes to supply.

    You might want to be cautious with the pumping - it sounds like you may fairly easily pump yourself into oversupply. The rule of thumb is that baby will need between 1 and 1.5 oz of milk per hour that you are at work. So let's say the first day back you will be apart 10 hours, then you don't need more than 15 oz or so at the most. Then each day you pump for the next day.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*bfwmomof3 View Post
    So almost 9 oz of weight gain in a week? That's a lot! Clearly baby is getting enough milk! Do you feel comfortable with the doctor's opinion that baby is not suffering from reflux? It seems to fit with what you have been feeling as well.

    It sounds like even doing a relatively modest amount of pumping has kicked your supply into high gear. I wonder whether you are used to a certain degree of oversupply, so that when your supply starts regulating back towards normal, it feels like undersupply to you. Also, remember that sometimes baby suckles at the breast without really wanting milk - so-called "comfort nursing."

    I don't know about the milk being more accessible when you were pumping. The episode you describe of her sucking vigorously for 10-15 minutes, gulping down the milk etc makes it sound like she has no difficulty extracting milk. And baby extracting milk is what matters when it comes to supply.

    You might want to be cautious with the pumping - it sounds like you may fairly easily pump yourself into oversupply. The rule of thumb is that baby will need between 1 and 1.5 oz of milk per hour that you are at work. So let's say the first day back you will be apart 10 hours, then you don't need more than 15 oz or so at the most. Then each day you pump for the next day.
    Apparently she is getting enough. Thank goodness. I hope it continues like this!!! The nurse first told us she gained a lb and I nearly fainted then the dr corrected her and said it was 9oz. Yes we're happy with the dr's opinion!

    Hmmm thats a good point. plus this full feeling did not start until tuesday or wednesday and she was weighed on Thurs. I somehow wish that she sucked that vigorously and continuously at all feedings. then i would be less worried abt her getting enough and keeping my supply up. ah yes, I hope she was indeed just comfort sucking, but since she hadnt eaten in a few hours and it was evening, I somehow doubt it.
    I'm giving mself a break from pumping and if I do it Im thinking to do it for a short time instead of 15 minutes. I really seem to respond to the pump.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*safitu View Post
    Apparently she is getting enough. Thank goodness. I hope it continues like this!!! The nurse first told us she gained a lb and I nearly fainted then the dr corrected her and said it was 9oz. Yes we're happy with the dr's opinion!

    Hmmm thats a good point. plus this full feeling did not start until tuesday or wednesday and she was weighed on Thurs. I somehow wish that she sucked that vigorously and continuously at all feedings. then i would be less worried abt her getting enough and keeping my supply up. ah yes, I hope she was indeed just comfort sucking, but since she hadnt eaten in a few hours and it was evening, I somehow doubt it.
    I'm giving mself a break from pumping and if I do it Im thinking to do it for a short time instead of 15 minutes. I really seem to respond to the pump.
    Ladies, I want to thank all of you who wrote responses. God bless all of you. I think my baby was able to gain such great weight due to your wonderful, logical advice: feed baby more often!!

  8. #28

    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    I think you have had nothing but reassurance that, not matter what challenges you faced early on, all appears well & normal. Great gain in the last week, doctor is not concerned, baby nursing normally, and your body responding to pumping normally- by making more milk, maybe even ‘too much’ temporarily!

    Just a word about weight gain-it fluctuates. This is normal. One week or one day tells us little, it is the overall gain over MONTHS that tells us all is well, overall. So remember that if gain slows down again. Also of course gain rate begins to slow normally at ~ 3 months and continues to slow, or all babies would grow to be giants.

    I think we as a society tend to see breastfeeding as something fragile and breastfeeding 'success' as something elusive. Your experience teaches us it is not, or anyway, need not be. You have had challenges, yet your baby is thriving entirely on your delicious milk. There is no reason to think this will not continue to be the case. And I agree-I try to not say 'never' but if I could, I would say, it *never* hurts & often helps to nurse more often.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    I think you have had nothing but reassurance that, not matter what challenges you faced early on, all appears well & normal. Great gain in the last week, doctor is not concerned, baby nursing normally, and your body responding to pumping normally- by making more milk, maybe even ‘too much’ temporarily!

    Just a word about weight gain-it fluctuates. This is normal. One week or one day tells us little, it is the overall gain over MONTHS that tells us all is well, overall. So remember that if gain slows down again. Also of course gain rate begins to slow normally at ~ 3 months and continues to slow, or all babies would grow to be giants.

    I think we as a society tend to see breastfeeding as something fragile and breastfeeding 'success' as something elusive. Your experience teaches us it is not, or anyway, need not be. You have had challenges, yet your baby is thriving entirely on your delicious milk. There is no reason to think this will not continue to be the case. And I agree-I try to not say 'never' but if I could, I would say, it *never* hurts & often helps to nurse more often.
    Thank you for your kind and encouraging words!!

    it's been a rough, rough day. I have totally lost any feeling of fullness. baby is 12 weeks so I guess we can assume my supply has totally regulated and I worry about her ability to keep it up. I'm thinking her tongue is restricted b/c her latch is off and I feel her flicking the front of my nipple. I am doing compressions, switching her back and forth between breasts and I am pretty certain she is getting very little milk. During the morning she was crying, now she's just doing her best "sucking" and falling asleep. If only this baby could take a bottle! I tried to give her one of EBM and she wouldnt take it. I pumped in the morning after attempting to feed her and got 2 oz on each side. I fed her after pumping and she seemed to be able to get to the milk better after the pump. I've been feeding her everytime she wakes up, Ive not done a good job of keeping track of how many times/ intervals. but Ive fed her at every oppty. Its like I can see her sucking but not enough swallow in there. She's getting a letdown, sometimes Im helping by massaging my other nipple. She's breaking suction at the letdown or pulling off sometimes too. There is no spray. She's pulling her hair while nursing. I finally got another chance to pump around 9pm and again got 2 oz out of each side after about 5 min. My husband brought baby to me at that point so I cut off the pumping and fed her. Maybe my supply is low but I believe there is milk in there if she was able to suck vigorously.

    Perhaps my baby needs me to be "full" in order to access my milk more easily. Its 1 am and I would normally be nice and full by this time ( I was last night). This is when my baby gets her gulps. But I feel so empty. The baby is peeing, but I feel like it is less volume. Diapers are not soaking. She seems very sleepy. She's not crying.

    I dont know where to go for help. My husband refuses to entertain the possibility that she might need another revision. We cant traumatize baby again by taking her to Albany i wish she would just take a bottle. I have EBM for her. Heck I would give her formula if I had to. I just want to feed her.

    How should it feel when I nurse my baby now that my supply is regulated? What sounds should I hear? If she can stimulate my letdown, is that enough? Or does she need to be able to suck vigorously before and after the letdown as well?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Questions about reflux and pumping to up supply

    Losing the feeling of fullness at 12 weeks: normal.
    Baby acting very fussy when supply adjusts: normal. She may be needing to know a whole new and more assertive style of nursing.
    Baby not taking a bottle: normal, particularly if she is getting her needs met at the breast.
    Hair pulling during nursing: totally normal- babies do all sorts of weird twiddly moves while nursing.
    Pumping 2 oz per breast after feeding: extremely good. After nursing, a lot of women can't get anything with the pump.

    Basically, I don't think I see a problem here. Watch the baby's diapers- as long as she continues to have sufficient wets, she is getting enough to eat. This link covers how to evaluate a wet diaper: http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supp...ughmilk-older/. Give her a chance to get used to the new flow regime, give her a chance to learn how to nurse effectively now that things have changed.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

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