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Thread: FTM EBW questioning myself

  1. #11
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    If fussyness happens more toward the middle or end of the feeding, rather than more at beginning, that sounds less like forceful letdown- BUT, I am wondering-maybe baby is trying to nurse to sleep, and cannot due to the flow being too fast even at the end of the feeding?
    It's possible and very reasonable. Also read somewhere on this forum that babies can get upset that the milk makes them sleepy and they just want to keep sucking. Came across this: http://www.breastfeedingbasics.com/q...y-from-nipples
    And she says that newborn will happily snooze waiting for the next letdown while as the baby gets older and more aware of the surrounding , gets mad that has to wait.

    What if you put baby more up against your shoulder, (facing overabies your shoulder a bit) or snuggled upright against your chest (facing you) Still does not like being upright? Babies often like to be supported with slight pressure on their fronts-some like more pressure, which is when you use the 'magic baby hold' where baby lies front down along your forearm. However, if you baby prefers being down and on her back, no worries, that is your baby. If your baby is happiest more flat on her back, that would tend to go against reflux being an issue.
    She doesn't mind it when in good mood. Will fall asleep like that with some patting and like being walked around like that so she can see everything. But when she gets fussy it doesn't work.

    If you are not bedsharing, that is fine, but are you room sharing? (AAP recommends room sharing for at least the first year as a SIDS preventative.)
    Yeah she sleeps in moses basket beside our bed.
    I'm considering co sleeping. Didn't want to do that for many reasons. First of all didn't want that to be just for my convenience. Then, don't want my husband to feel refused and excluded. I'm very attached to my OH and that's the only time I can cuddle with him right now. And then there is the issue of more children in the future.
    Anyway, if room sharing, you could bring baby to the bedroom when you want to go to sleep and lay her in the crib or bassinet or whatever. I am not sure how happy she will be with this but every baby is different. Of course, if she is fussy and not happy put in the crib, she is presumably needing to be held- or is that not your experience?
    I am not sure how else to show a baby the difference between day and night?
    She won't like it, LOL Tried that at the beginning and now I know it's not worth for me to even attempt to go and sleep before she passes out. Even if I share bed with her I couldn't sleep as she's fussy and needs relatching often. Of course I could kind of nap but I find that it makes me more cranky I prefer to wait and go to sleep properly.

    Believe me, I understand how frustrating super-frequent feeding can be, and how easy it can be to fall into the mindset that it can't possibly normal. For me, it was kind of like "How can anything this tough be normal?"
    The problem nobody tells you that. Here in UK midwives will say to wake up baby after 4 hours to feed, they will mention cluster feeding but they don't explain what all that means and how different it can be.
    This forum is a great source of information for moms who are trying to eliminate foods from their diets. We have a lot of moms here who have gone dairy-free, or soy-free, or whatever, and they're an excellent resource.
    Will look into that as well.

    There are so many possibilities! Maybe she's full but still wants to suck, and can't do that without getting more milk than she needs.
    What do you think then about giving her paci/ dummy? I know it's generally discouraged here.

    I am with LLLMeg that the more you can cut down on artificial light during the evening, that will be a big step towards teaching your baby the difference between day and night.
    Even tried to sit with no light on but didn't work for me sitting for so many hours in darkness with just laptop on.

    I am trying to say is, please do not look at your day (or night) with a 6 week old and think that is going to be your life with your baby a month from now. It is almoust surely not, even if you do 'nothing' but keep going with the flow. And a month after that it will be different again, and so on.
    Oh man I really hope so as I'm so exhausted right now. Just though that finished 5 hours long evening with my LO, but no, she woke up again. At the end she nursed for nearly 1.5h straight. Halfway through she was falling asleep so took her to change the nappy in case she sleeps. She woke up but was very ok and calm. I even managed to go to the toilet for a wee, LOL. And then as soon as I put her back on the breast she went crazy I mean really crazy. Sucking frantically, losing the latch all the time and crying (that super upset kind of cry), pulling the nipple, breathing fast, gasping for air. She even got sweaty from all that hard work sucking. At some point even I cried, cause she seemed so distressed trying to relatch but because was so upset couldn't really do it. Then finally fell asleep but when I put her down ( had to go to the toilet really badly), she woke up. I know everybody's telling me it's gonna change but right now, for me seems like it's gonna be like that forever. It's 1:16 am and I've been on the coach since past 7 pm, moved maybe 3 times mostly to change her. Wonder whether I'll ever go to sleep :/

  2. #12
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    I'm considering co sleeping. Didn't want to do that for many reasons. First of all didn't want that to be just for my convenience. Then, don't want my husband to feel refused and excluded. I'm very attached to my OH and that's the only time I can cuddle with him right now. And then there is the issue of more children in the future.
    Lots of couples find that when there's a nursing baby in the mix, sleep- particularly the mother's sleep- takes precedence over the adults sharing a bed. So someone moves to another room for a while- maybe dad goes to the guest room, or mom puts a futon on the floor of the baby's room and co-sleeps there. It's temporary, it doesn't mean that anyone is being rejected. It just means that you get a little more flexible and creative about where you cuddle- and also where you have sex.

    If there are more children in your future, you'll figure out your sleep situation if and when they arrive. Don't shortchange your sleep now because of something that may be years into the future.

    Of course I could kind of nap but I find that it makes me more cranky I prefer to wait and go to sleep properly.
    I would try it again. A lot of moms have difficulty napping in the hypervigilant newborn phase, but find that they can do so more easily as time goes on. And speaking as someone who has always hated naps, I can say that you can train yourself to take a short nap and wake somewhat refreshed and not cranky!

    What do you think then about giving her paci/ dummy? I know it's generally discouraged here.
    The general recommendations about pacifiers are as follows:
    1. Wait 3-4 weeks before introducing one to cut down on the risk of nipple confusion.
    2. If breastfeeding is not going well, wait longer.
    3. Don't use the pacifier to stretch out the time between feedings.
    4. If there are difficulties with weight gain or baby is going too long without nursing, take the pacifier away- at least for a while.


    Hang in there, mama! This stage is exhausting and frustrating... And temporary. It won't be like this forever! And when you've gotten through it, and someone says "wow, you're so lucky to be able to breastfeed", you will be able to reply "Luck had nothing to do with it. Hard work, that's what made it possible."
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  3. #13

    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    I'm considering co sleeping. Didn't want to do that for many reasons. First of all didn't want that to be just for my convenience. Then, don't want my husband to feel refused and excluded. I'm very attached to my OH and that's the only time I can cuddle with him right now. And then there is the issue of more children in the future.
    You already are co-sleeping. Room sharing is co-sleeping. Bedsharing is also co-sleeping, if that makes sense….
    Are you thinking your husband cannot safely be in the same bed with you and baby? Or that he won't want to?

    My husband and I bedshared together with all three children. And managed to have three children despite starting rather late in life in my case. Does sex & intimacy often become a little tricky or different one way or another after having kids? Of course. But this may happen whether a family is bedsharing or not.

    Bedsharing is not for everyone! But it can (for many families) mean that everyone gets more sleep. I will never forget reading Dr. Sears baby book when my oldest was 4 months old and he mentioned bedsharing. "You can do that???" My husband and I were amazed- and ecstatic.

    There are safety considerations when bedsharing that have to be considered by those who are not culturally familiar with bedsharing and are using a western bed. And if mom's sexual partner is not the child's biological father, there are possible safety issues and bedsharing may not be appropriate. For more on safety, you can look up the website of Dr. Sears or Dr. James McKenna. But for most humans for most of history, parents sleep with their children. And as far as I am aware, we have been pretty successful at procreation as a species. So bedsharing need not be a barrier to more kids or cuddling, or need to make dad feel excluded.

    First of all didn't want that to be just for my convenience.
    Why in the world not?

  4. #14

    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Oh and here is some info on bedsharing and other infant sleep options from your neck of the woods. http://www.isisonline.org.uk/where_b...p/parents_bed/
    This whole website has lots more info on what is normal with infant sleep, how it changes over time, etc. Here are two interesting pages about that: http://www.isisonline.org.uk/how_bab...p_development/ & http://www.isisonline.org.uk/how_bab...ep_as_they_do/

  5. #15
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Sorry for not responding earlier, was kind of busy.
    So the night I posted last time, when she was giving me hard time I finally gave up and lied with her. Wasn't bad and she slept 4 and then 3 hours. So now It's been 3 nights since I shared the bed with her. For now it's just me and her but when I buy that safety child bed barrier think maybe my husband may join.
    Thanks for the links, went through them after the first night.
    My concern for now is how do you know when to change the breast? As sometimes she'll wake up and suck just for a while before falling asleep and then other times she'll want full feed. But how would I know that as I'm half sleepy and I don't keep a track of how much she drank each time. Once she didn't even nurse, as soon as she felt the breast in front of her, she fell asleep.
    Another thing is what position your LOs sleep? As she will nurse lying on her side but then I'm afraid that she'll finish and fall asleep. She's just 7 wo so she can't roll on her own yet.
    What's you experience on that?

  6. #16
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    I think that at night, you go very much by feel. If baby seems satisfied after just one breast, or falls back to sleep after just being near the breast, that's okay. If one side starts to feel too full, offer the full breast so that you don't end up uncomfortable by morning.

    Ideally, you somehow roll baby back onto her back after nursing.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  7. #17
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    I'm bumping this thread as I have some questions again.
    So after that 6 week growth spurt everything settled but few days ago my little one started being fussy again. It happens mostly in the evening which I know is normal, but the reason why I'm concerned is because I hate to see her being so upset. The other night she just didn't want to settle which hasn't happened before. Usually even being the fussiest she would nurse but that night at some point (and other nights too) she looked like she didn't want to. She'd be fussing, squirming, crying and when I tried to latch her on she seemed to squirm and cry even more finally latching and sucking like crazy. I'm thinking maybe she's overtired and she doesn't know what she wants?
    The other thing is that I'm still trying to figure out what the fussiness, clamping and tugging the nipple means. Is it forceful letdown, or maybe at some point the flow slows down and baby gets impatient, or she wants to suck but the milk makes her sleepy and she doesn't want to sleep, or maybe like somebody suggested she's trying to nurse to sleep and the milk is flowing too fast. The last one is very possible as she'd be rubbing her eyes and generally seems tired and cranky and would be falling asleep shortly after that, just to wake up after minute or two.
    I just can't figure out whether I have FL :/ I've never sprayed, sometimes there's just some milk running as my LO unlatches. She will on occasions gag cough and choke but I though it may be that she's forgetting herself or falling asleep and stops swallowing. I do leak sometimes and I don't really feel full anymore. And on few ocasions there was milk coming from my DD's nose.
    I just wanna help her so desperately as she seems to 'suffer' (well no actually suffer just being upset). Sometimes seems like she hates my breast, but will still nurse though. I cried so many times due to that and I hate seeing her like that.
    She seems to be even more upset in those moments when I try to nurse her lying down. Is it because she's not getting milk that effectively in that position?
    Also I still didn't figure out when to switch breasts. As she has quite a lot of green poop (now as I reduced diary it's not always green but it can be coincidence as I didn't cut diary at all) it may be the case of too much foremilk, so I try to keep her on one breast for as long as possible.
    And if she has one of those marathons of nursing when basically she's on breast for couple of hours falling asleep for few minutes and sucking while sleeping how often should I swap the breasts?
    And two more questions:
    -How do you bed share when baby starts rolling? I mean if you need to stand up and leave baby alone in bed? Or when the baby naps? I'm planning to buy crib and attach it to the side of the bed but it's not possible until we move to new place (right now the room is too small)
    -I know it's kind of silly question but how long does it take for a breast to produce milk? I know the breast never gets really empty so just being curios. fe if baby nurses and then I put her on the other breast for half an hour and then swap again, will there be some decent amount of milk already?
    -Can I mess my supply if I don't swap breasts regularly at night? I try to do that but as we know sometimes baby will feed and sometimes she'll just suck few times and drift away again. I don't remember how many times I woke up at night let alone which breast I fed and how long for.
    Btw she's 9 wo. Everybody says it settles around 8 weeks but I don't see any improvements in her sleep I hate the idea of carrying on like this for the next weeks, possibly months to come. I'm sorry to say that but it makes me regret BF on occasions. Sometimes I wish I bottle feed, then stick the dummy and be good for some 4h rather that being like a slave. Even when she sleeps I cannot relax as I never know whether I have 1 minute or 2h. I'm so fed up of people telling me that I need to introduce feeding schedule, or that their baby slept through the night at 6 weeks. Seriously? I'm not even dreaming about it. I would be the happiest if she falls asleep at reasonable time even if she wakes up every 2h for the whole night.
    I'm sorry but I had to pour the frustration as it's 1 am and I'm just finishing 8 hour nursing session. Is it possible another growth spurt? My LO seems to be on and off them every couple of days since birth :/
    Last edited by @llli*fezghoula; December 10th, 2013 at 07:26 PM. Reason: another question

  8. #18
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Fussy evenings can be REALLY hard on parents. People are programmed to respond to their babies' cries, and when those cries are inconsolable it is just excruciating. If you read the literature on colic, it all mentions just how distressing the crying can be for caregivers. And I think there is additional distress for the nursing mom, because she feels this instinctive urge to nurse the baby into happiness and it can be emotionally difficult if the baby refuses to nurse. There's an intense feeling of "I must be doing it wrong, because by baby seems to hate this/me" when the baby is acting fussy.

    Just be patient with her and with yourself. 9 weeks is brand-new. I know that many people will tell you "Oh, it all gets better at x weeks," but that's a load of malarkey! The turning points in baby development are often subtle, and all babies reach them at different times. And definitely don't listen to those people who promise the moon if only you get your baby on some stupid schedule, or to the people who tell you that their babies slept a zillion hours in a row at 6 weeks of age.

    I wish I had good answers to your questions about when to swap breasts. But I don't. You have to go by the baby's behavior, I think- if she seems really hungry, try switching her to the other side. If that helps, then it was the right thing to do. If not, well... All you can do is to try something else the next time.

    Re: bed sharing- when baby starts rolling, you either surround her with pillows (good for younger, lighter babies), get a bed rail, or put your mattress on the floor. You have some time before you need to worry about it, I think.

    Re: how long it takes for the breast to produce milk- this differs for every mom. As you said, the breast is never empty because milk is always being made. Some moms will make milk faster than others, though. But after a half hour pause, I would expect a fair amount of milk to be back in the breast.

    Re: swapping breasts at night- don't worry about it. I think the worst thing that could happen would be that you could get lopsided if you always offer the same breast at night. But that's unlikely. And if you're alternating breasts, don't worry about supply even if you're not always perfect about how/when you swap. Nursing is an art, not a science- go by what feels comfortable to you and more than likely everything will be fine!!!
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  9. #19
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mommal View Post
    Fussy evenings can be REALLY hard on parents. People are programmed to respond to their babies' cries, and when those cries are inconsolable it is just excruciating. If you read the literature on colic, it all mentions just how distressing the crying can be for caregivers. And I think there is additional distress for the nursing mom, because she feels this instinctive urge to nurse the baby into happiness and it can be emotionally difficult if the baby refuses to nurse. There's an intense feeling of "I must be doing it wrong, because by baby seems to hate this/me" when the baby is acting fussy.
    I just wonder what's the reason of her fussiness recently. Is it any other growth spurt or what?! She wants to nurse nearly all the time but between would be generally happy but it lasts just few minutes rather than around hour like before. It's hardly enough to change her or do some tummy time before she starts fussing and crying again. And then she is fussing on the breast and if sb saw us would think I'm forcing her to nurse (but it's not, once she latches she either sucks like crazy or then falls asleep).
    Today she was super fussy even during day time so it's no more just evenings. Arms flailing, squirming, tugging my nipple, unlatching, crying, sweating, heavy breathing (she's not running marathon, just nursing) scratching me ( by chance of course), nearly got nail in the eye couple of times. I'm so desperately trying to find the reason for that as TBH it makes me hate BF at this moment. I don't enjoy it anymore for most of the time. And of course I start blaming myself and come up with the weirdest ideas why she's nursing so often. My most current one is that she's having shallow latch and not drinking effectively enough that's why she's always hungry. I'm kind of person that starts to look for the problems where they don't exist :/ Because if that was the case she wouldn't be gaining so well, right?
    I'm just so tired (not so much physically), all this lack of sleep, constant waking up (between about 5/6 in the morning she'd wake up every half an hour sometimes) plus I have cold and possibly tonsillitis probably from not looking well after myself. Haven't taken shower yet and probably won't today. Keep waking up my LO who's sleeping on me with my stuffed nose. Plus came across some documentary on Youtube 'Extraordinary breastfeeding' and there was this lady breastfeeding her twins who were over 2yo and they'd nurse about 20 times day and night. Don't think I'm up for it.
    I just need it to get easier before I go crazy. Is there any growth spurt/ whatever at 9 wo?

  10. #20
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    The person who figures out infant fussiness- why it happens, what to do about it, how to make it less distressing for parents- deserves the a Nobel prize for medicine. And peace. In fact, we ought to give that person the prizes for chemistry, economics, literature, and physics while we're at it, just because they deserve maximum reward for figuring out humanity's oldest and most perplexing issue.

    I know it's really natural to look for explanations for a baby's fussing. That's how I was with my firstborn- if she was fussy, I tortured myself looking for the reason. Maybe she had an upset tummy. Maybe she was tired. Maybe she wasn't tired. Maybe the milk flow was too slow. Maybe she was nursing too often. Maybe her naps were too erratic. What was I doing wrong??? All that worry never got me anywhere, though. Eventually my daughter just grew out of the fussy phase. If I could get a do-over with her, I'd know that it was pointless wondering about the whys of her fussiness. I'd focus on the hows- how to comfort her, how to be more flexible, how to get my needs met, how to sleep when the baby sleeps no matter how inconvenient that is, how to remember that it's all temporary.

    But I don't want you to think that your quest for an explanation is being dismissed, so on to your specific concerns. If this was a shallow latch, you'd be in pain and your baby might not be gaining well. And frequent feedings are normal, especially at this age.

    It's okay to hate breastfeeding. That's a reality for a lot of moms, espeically the first time round. Nursing a newborn isn't especially rewarding. They're fussy, they're difficult to position, and all they do is take. But stick with it through the difficult "fourth trimester" phase and you'll get to a place that is a lot more rewarding. Your baby will be a faster nurser, she'll get interested in things aside from nursing, she'll be able to latch on without much assistance from you, and she'll start giving back. Smiling at you when she nurses. Reaching up to pat you. Acting excited and delighted when she sees you're about to feed her. It's worth hanging in there to get to the give-back stage.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

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