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Thread: FTM EBW questioning myself

  1. #21
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Ok I think I am echoing mommal here. I got interrupted a few times while trying to reply so I am not going to reedit now.

    I think you can probably rule out reflux & forceful letdown. Why? because it is unlikely these things would improve for a time and then get worse again. Its possible for a few reasons, but unlikely. So that is good news.

    I just wonder what's the reason of her fussiness recently.
    heres a thought. It does not matter. Fussiness is a normal part of life for a newborn, and fussiness when nursing is also normal, if for no other reason that an infant nurses so much, fussiness and nursing will normally coincide.

    Here is how you tell fussiness is a sign that something is probably really wrong-1)baby is visibly unhealthy (has a fever, whatever) 2)baby is not gaining weight normally 3) baby never calms down for any part of the day
    As far as the nipple pulling, again, unless this is accompanied by some other symptom, I think it does not really matter why baby does this.

    The flailing etc. sounds positional to me. By which I mean I wonder if changing your nursing positions ever helps? Standing, leaning back, sidelying, etc.

    If my baby was too upset to nurse without agony for both of us, I would not nurse, comfort another way, and nurse later.

    I don’t think you need to decide at this point whether you like breastfeeding or hate it, or like being a mother or hate it. We (society) tends to have an unfortunate idealization of motherhood which is seldom the reality. Breastfeeding is a normal part of new motherhood and there are lots of things to get used to in the new motherhood period. It sounds as if you are sick and exhausted and unshowered, and that never feels good. But except for the sick part, this is pretty par for the course in the first few months with a newborn. I suggest you try to stop finding fault with yourself for having a normal mothering experience with a normal baby. I would also suggest do not worry about tummy time, babies typically hate it and it’s possibly not in any way needed for a baby who is not spending hours flat on their back in a crib.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post

    The flailing etc. sounds positional to me. By which I mean I wonder if changing your nursing positions ever helps? Standing, leaning back, sidelying, etc.
    Not really but it only happens in those super fussy moments. Other times she's perfectly calm and no arms flailing and I always feed the same "leaning back" position (or sidelying if sleeping)

    I don’t think you need to decide at this point whether you like breastfeeding or hate it, or like being a mother or hate it. We (society) tends to have an unfortunate idealization of motherhood which is seldom the reality.
    I have to admit it's a great shock for me. Of course I knew it's not walking in the park, but didn't realize how hard, monotonous job it is and how little free time I'd have.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*mommal View Post
    I know it's really natural to look for explanations for a baby's fussing. That's how I was with my firstborn- if she was fussy, I tortured myself looking for the reason. Maybe she had an upset tummy. Maybe she was tired. Maybe she wasn't tired. Maybe the milk flow was too slow. Maybe she was nursing too often. Maybe her naps were too erratic. What was I doing wrong??? All that worry never got me anywhere, though. Eventually my daughter just grew out of the fussy phase. If I could get a do-over with her, I'd know that it was pointless wondering about the whys of her fussiness.
    Thanks, I thought it's just me. I have exactly the same questions when she's fussy. Puts my mind in ease little bit knowing I'm not the only one blaming myself constantly.
    Your baby will be a faster nurser, she'll get interested in things aside from nursing, she'll be able to latch on without much assistance from you, and she'll start giving back. Smiling at you when she nurses. Reaching up to pat you. Acting excited and delighted when she sees you're about to feed her. It's worth hanging in there to get to the give-back stage.
    She already is less interested in nursing only. Up to the point that I was feeling quite full and leaking a lot few days ago. And she smiles sometimes and cooes when I nurse her ( usually when I need her to feed quickly as we're outside or rushing to catch the bus etc)

    So for the past days I've tried to relax and watch my LO and when she cries and fusses and night take it easy and wait for it to pass rather than stress and panic whether she's in pain.
    There's just one thing still stuck in my mind and bothering me. And as I think about it it seems to make sense. I suspect I may have FL and/or OS at least in the right breast. What makes me think so (apart from my gut feeling):
    -super fast weight gain (8.5lb birth, 15.8lb now at 11 weeks) The HV saw me on Monday and she said she's concerned with my DD weight gain. I don't know how about US but in UK we have those weight charts. My LO started in 75centiles, jumped to 91 centiles at 7 weeks and now she's over 98th.
    -green poop. I know that some say to ignore the color but I think I read somewhere that it can be a sign. Plus her poop is yellow in the morning and the closer to the evening the more green it is (which I explain myself this way: she feeds less at night so the food has more time to go through her digestive system and I like thinking this way as this would exclude intolerance.)
    -few days ago I was hand expressing just to relieve the hardness of the breast (it was when my breast felt full) and my right breast sprayed. Never happened to me before and wasn't much probably like a spray bottle.
    -I leak quite often (nearly every day in certain positions like leaning over while nappy change etc.)
    -every few days one of my breast, almost always the right one would feel full ( sometimes nearly engorged) could be because of irregular feeding pattern of my LO?
    -some feedings my LO is coming off the breast all the time, and sometimes I can hear sound like air being forced into her throat and in her belly.
    -milk leaking from her nose while nursing

    Tell me what you think about it please.
    Also can you reassure me about my DD "bedtime". Currently she falls asleep around 1-2 am. When can I see that changing? I don't mind it so much for now, I'm just afraid of creating a bad habit.
    Last edited by @llli*fezghoula; December 25th, 2013 at 02:28 PM. Reason: forgot sth

  3. #23
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Hi! So baby is now about 10 weeks old? Just checking my math.

    I do think it is possible you have overproduction and/or forceful letdown. They usually (but do not always) go together. The rapid weight gain and feeling engorged at this point would certainly point to that. Leaking may or may not, as spraying may or may not, green poops may or may not, nose or mouth leaks may or may not be indicators. But the gain and the engorged is enough to convince me. So, the question then is, is the fast gain a health issue? And the answer is NO!


    The HV saw me on Monday and she said she's concerned with my DD weight gain.
    btw we (US) have weight charts as well. There are various charts, many quite inaccurate, so the first thing to find out is if your hv is using the 2006 WHO charts that are based on normal fed (ie breastfed) babies. Even if they are, it is fine and normal for babies to move up or down these charts to some degree.

    Exclusively breastfed babies do not gain too fast. They gain normally, because breastfeeding (as opposed to bottle feeding) is biologically normal. And LOTS of moms have what would clinically be called overproduction meaning they make more milk than their baby needs to gain exactly one ounce a day (average gain for the first 3 months.) A baby cannot get too much milk, not at the breast.

    Does a baby whose moms has overproduction gain more quickly than a baby whose mom does not? Yes, certainly, at first. But gain will level off even if you do nothing. Your baby's intake and weight will adjust and your child will be whatever size as an adult genetics decide. (Obviously diet and exercise as an older child and teen matters, but baby being breastfed itself is already a factor in preventing obesity, some studies suggest.)

    Overproduction at this point you have a couple choices. Even if it is bothering you or your baby, you may continue as you are doing and know milk production will level off over time and with it the symptoms of ffld. You could also try block feeding, but be well aware this WILL reduce your milk production. So I am not sure this would be a great idea at this point. Milk production tends to level off and, in cases of OP, to reduce, at or after about 3 months if it did not happen earlier. This also coincides with a normal and fairly dramatic reduction is rate of gain starting at about 3 months. So think about that. This may not be the best time to be reducing your production as it may happen normally very soon. IN any case, block nursing It is not reccomended unless baby is gaining a minimum of 8 ounces a week (some suggest almost twice that before block nursing) AND the OP or FFLD is causing breastfeeding health issues. Meaning, causing baby to be unhappy nursing, causing mom to be engorged and getting plugs and mastitis, and/or causing baby to have severe intestinal discomfort outside the norm for a newborn. I will link some articles about block nursing for you. FWIW I had OP with all 3 kids, they all gained rapidly early on, and all are healthy normal weights at 10 & 7 years and 17 months old. I did many of the things that help wiht flow suggested in the kellymom article, but I never bothered block nursing.

    more on do’s and don’ts of block nursing: http://www.nancymohrbacher.com/blog/tag/block-feeding
    and http://cwgenna.com/blockfeeding.html
    and forceful letdown http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supp.../fast-letdown/

  4. #24
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Also can you reassure me about my DD "bedtime". Currently she falls asleep around 1-2 am. When can I see that changing? I don't mind it so much for now, I'm just afraid of creating a bad habit.
    You are not creating a bad habit. Erratic sleep day and night is normal for this age, and longer sleep stretch and regular bedtimes comes much later just naturally. (Of course you can encourage a regular bedtime with a bedtime routine but to my mind it's not at all needed this young-or is only helpful in that it gives frame to moms day, as opposed to doing anything for an infants sleep pattern.) Are you concerned about the time baby sleeps or the length of time baby sleeps? both? Did you get a chance to check out that sleep link I posted up thread?

  5. #25
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    I have to admit it's a great shock for me. Of course I knew it's not walking in the park, but didn't realize how hard, monotonous job it is and how little free time I'd have.
    Here is how I think of new motherhood. I think parenthood changes our lives so profoundly it's like suddenly the whole world is upside down. Everyone told you things would be different, but not actually UPSIDE DOWN! C'mon! Why didn’t anyone warn us? It's a huge shock. Then time goes on, and you learn to deal with the fact that everything is upside down but you really don't care for it and wish/wait for things to go right side up again.

    All the while, you love your baby-but feel terrible because you do not love every moment of motherhood like a greeting card. That love for baby itself is terrifying, it either feels like too much, or not enough, or a bit of both depending on your mood, but in any case there is guilt about really not liking many aspects of this upside down thing.

    Then one day you realize you have been walking on the ceiling for months & months and now the upside down world is your world and its going to be ok, this is normal, it's ok, it's even fun. Not ALL the time. But enough of the time.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    I have to admit it's a great shock for me. Of course I knew it's not walking in the park, but didn't realize how hard, monotonous job it is and how little free time I'd have.
    Amen!!!! And not only is the work monotonous, but your employer is super-demanding and everyone acts like you have the best job in the world despite the fact that you're frequently covered in someone else's bodily fluids. "You're a new mommy- all that fun time just hanging out and relaxing with your adorable baby!"

    It gets better, mama. And more fun.

    -super fast weight gain (8.5lb birth, 15.8lb now at 11 weeks) The HV saw me on Monday and she said she's concerned with my DD weight gain. I don't know how about US but in UK we have those weight charts. My LO started in 75centiles, jumped to 91 centiles at 7 weeks and now she's over 98th.
    Oh, those whacky HVs!!!! I can't tell you how many times we've had UK moms come through here with some new nugget of crazy fed to them by their HV, almost always regarding the baby's growth not looking like it "should", vis à vis the chart. I really think the HV system is wonderful, but in this one area it seems to be pretty defective. As LLLMeg said, it's totally normal for babies to move around on the charts. My kids, for example, were born small (the first one was only in the 20th %ile) and then rapidly climbed to the 99-100th %ile, and then dropped back to the 75-80th- all in their first 6 months! The pediatrician never said anything about it other than "great job, mom".

    Breastfed babies tend to gain weight relatively fast in the newborn period, when all they do is lie around. But once they start getting mobile, they tend to drop percentiles as they allocate increasing numbers of calories to motion, rather than packing them on as fat. Formula-fed babies tend to do the opposite- they gain slow in the newborn period, and then speed up as they get older. Guess which pattern is the healthy one!

    Also can you reassure me about my DD "bedtime". Currently she falls asleep around 1-2 am. When can I see that changing? I don't mind it so much for now, I'm just afraid of creating a bad habit
    You can encourage that to change by doing things like turning the lights, TV, and stereo down or preferably off in the evening, and making sure your baby gets natural light exposure during the day. Those 2 things will help to set her circadian rhythms in a pattern that matches light levels.

    A bedtime routine, consisting of bath, cuddles, clean pajamas, and lots of nursing should also help get your baby into a "this is bedtime" mood.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  7. #27
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    My baby is also 6 weeks and has gotten so fussy & never seems satiated. Last night I googled "how much crying it's normal for a baby." The first post was this: http://www.parents.com/baby/care/col...normal/?page=1
    The part I found most helpful was the quote from a research article that said that babies become more and more fussy and that that fussiness peaks at six weeks. This made me feel like everything was pretty normal! And that it may not last forever.
    Anyway, I thought I'd share in case it's at all helpful for you!
    Last edited by @llli*jessicanewmom; December 25th, 2013 at 10:08 PM.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*fezghoula View Post
    -super fast weight gain (8.5lb birth, 15.8lb now at 11 weeks) The HV saw me on Monday and she said she's concerned with my DD weight gain. I don't know how about US but in UK we have those weight charts. My LO started in 75centiles, jumped to 91 centiles at 7 weeks and now she's over 98th.
    This is okay! Like the PPs mentioned, you cannot overfeed a breastfed baby. It is normal and okay for them to put on weight pretty fast in the first six months. And for what it's worth, they can do this even when you DON'T have any touch of oversupply. My daughter was born at the 15th percentile, and then almost immediately shot up to above and off the 99th percentile curve (where she still is at 13 months!) and I do not have even a drop of oversupply. On the contrary; I nursed nearly all day long for weeks and weeks just to build and maintain something approximating a "normal" supply. So genetics definitely are at play here, too--though I do agree you have some other signs of oversupply, baby gaining weight rapidly is not a health problem.

    Also can you reassure me about my DD "bedtime". Currently she falls asleep around 1-2 am. When can I see that changing? I don't mind it so much for now, I'm just afraid of creating a bad habit.
    It will change in time. It's hard to put an exact timeframe on anything--but it will change, I promise! My baby did not sleep at night at all for the first 6 weeks, and then very gradually started sleeping at night in small chunks, and then very slowly, her bedtime crept earlier and earlier. But she had what many people would consider to be a "late" bedtime for the first 5-6 months. You aren't creating a bad habit! This is just normal biology playing out, too. I also did as PP mentioned, and just created gentle routines of dim lights at night, and made a point to turn on some brighter lights during daytime hours to help baby sort out the difference. I had a winter newborn, too, so natural daylight was quite limited for us!
    Apologies for the short responses! I'm usually responding one-handed on my smartphone!

  9. #29
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    Milk production tends to level off and, in cases of OP, to reduce, at or after about 3 months if it did not happen earlier. This also coincides with a normal and fairly dramatic reduction is rate of gain starting at about 3 months. So think about that. This may not be the best time to be reducing your production as it may happen normally very soon. IN any case, block nursing It is not reccomended unless baby is gaining a minimum of 8 ounces a week (some suggest almost twice that before block nursing) AND the OP or FFLD is causing breastfeeding health issues.
    That's why I'll probably wait till she hits 3 mths mark and then I'll worry if the symptoms continue.
    Did you get a chance to check out that sleep link I posted up thread?
    Yeah I read them, the very day you posted them. Should probably print the entire website and show to everyone mentioning sleep training, self soothing SIDS etc.
    Then time goes on, and you learn to deal with the fact that everything is upside down but you really don't care for it and wish/wait for things to go right side up again.
    Oh the amount of times I wish I get my 'old' life back just for one day. Just so I can go to sleep whenever I want, know what I'll be doing each day and just generally have my life organized again.
    Then one day you realize you have been walking on the ceiling for months & months and now the upside down world is your world and its going to be ok, this is normal, it's ok, it's even fun. Not ALL the time. But enough of the time.
    I like the way you described it
    Oh, those whacky HVs!!!! I can't tell you how many times we've had UK moms come through here with some new nugget of crazy fed to them by their HV, almost always regarding the baby's growth not looking like it "should", vis à vis the chart. I really think the HV system is wonderful, but in this one area it seems to be pretty defective
    She even suggested that because my LO is gaining so much I work on letting her sleep through the night, cutting night feeding and giving water instead and letting her self settle at night. Very educated advice.
    A bedtime routine, consisting of bath, cuddles, clean pajamas, and lots of nursing should also help get your baby into a "this is bedtime" mood.
    I've been trying to do that for couple of weeks and waiting for a miracle to happen, LOL

    The part I found most helpful was the quote from a research article that said that babies become more and more fussy and that that fussiness peaks at six weeks
    For us it increased at about 6 weeks with the growth spurt, then went down for a while and since then it seems like slowly but constantly increasing. May be that my LO character started showing through Sometimes I'm afraid to pick her up if she's quiet as "If it's not broken, don't fix it" But have to admit it's hardly a cry now, more like fussing, complaining, whimpering.
    It will change in time. It's hard to put an exact timeframe on anything--but it will change, I promise! My baby did not sleep at night at all for the first 6 weeks, and then very gradually started sleeping at night in small chunks, and then very slowly, her bedtime crept earlier and earlier.
    You're pouring some hope into my heart.
    I had a winter newborn, too, so natural daylight was quite limited for us!
    Yeah it is a pain. Not only the weather is bad ( means stuck home some days = unhappy fussy baby) but the day is so short. Sometimes when it's gloomy it's getting dark around 3pm :/ Even though I live in safe, very friendly part of town I wouldn't walk outside on my own with my DD when it's dark. Wish it's summer when you can easily go for a walk at 8pm as it's still bright. Good news is days are getting longer and longer

    Today I feel quite full again and she doesn't want to nurse much and spitting a lot. I just hope it won't create a vicious circle.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: FTM EBW questioning myself

    I'm a little late to this party, but wanted to offer some encouragement. When I was pregnant with DS1 I was so focused on the pregnanacy and birth I gave so little thought to what it would actually be like to HAVE the baby. I love lllmeg's description of it. That is spot on. We created our new normal, and then had another. And once again, got flipped upside down. Only this time I was prepared for it, not 100% but enough to know that things get better and easier. You will find time for yourself again. You will get to sleep again (although I have no idea a time frame on that one!! lol). 10 weeks in is still soooo new. You will look back at this time at 9 months and smile at how far you have come.

    One of the hardest parts of being a parent is not trying to "fix" everything. I find that to be true from birth to 14 yrs so far. You cannot always find a reason, or a solution. And really, right next to that is being gentle with yourself. Mothering is hard work. It really sounds like you are doing a stellar job for your little.
    FT working momma to a 9/11/10 busy boy and 11/13/12 happy little man.
    Also wife to hubs since 8/23/08, bonus momma to H (girl) -99 and G (boy)-03

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