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Thread: Should I just pump?

  1. #1

    Default Should I just pump?

    Hi mommas! I am mother to 7.5 week old Avery, who was born at 37 weeks via C section due to preeclampsia. This is my third child, and I have breastfeed both other kids until 6 months.
    Avery has always been very sleepy baby, needing to be woken up for feeds and always falling asleep at the breast within 2 minutes, hence her intake wasn't much in the beginning. She is slightly better as in will wake up more easily these days, nonetheless still falls asleep.
    This is true both with bottle and breast.
    She has also been diagnosed with high arched palate and recessed jaw which make latching on hard, no pain but lots of clicking sounds, and she will unlatch very easily if I'm not holding breast tissue right.
    Also with poor sucking, most oft he times I am performing Breast compressions and changing my position which makes the 2 minutes of sucking happen....
    My LC thinks Avery might get better by 10-12 weeks but as she says no guarantees.
    Currently with 45 minutes of trials with alternating breasts at 7 weeks she took one ounce at breast. This has been stagnant for the last 2 weeks at weigh ins.
    My pediatrician thinks I should just EP.....
    Anyways so here is our routine: feed every 2.5 hours on schedule/ if she wakes up earlier then of course offer breast earlier
    Try to BF for 45 minuets, then feed her bottle of pumped milk, put her down and pump... Not very efficient hence I am considering only EPing
    We used syringe feeds in the past, too long didn't work, and SNS same problem as breast she just sleeps off and won't suck.
    So I am looking for suggestions, as to how to improve breast time, or should I just EP?
    Thanks
    Plum

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    Welcome to the forum!

    Your pediatrician suggests you EP, but it's not your pediatrician who is going to be getting up at 3 a.m. and hooking him/herself up to the pump while trying to bottlefeed the crying baby with his/her third hand! People are quick to suggest EP because they won't actually have to do it. If they did, they would probably suggest that EP be a last resort, something you try after all else has failed and you've been trying to master breastfeeding for several months, not several weeks. Especially with a baby who was mildly early.

    A lot can change as your baby grows, and her mouth grows, and as she wakes up more and more. And the fact that she can get an ounce at the breast is great- that means that she does have the drive and ability to transfer milk. She probably just needs to grow a bit more.

    Did the LC check her carefully for tongue and lip ties?

    Also, have you tried switch nursing? With switch nursing, you put the baby on breast A, let her nurse, and as soon as she starts to doze off, you take her off the breast, burp her or change her diaper, and then put her on breast B. If she falls asleep on breast B, you switch her back to breast A. You repeat the process as many times as necessary, until she will no longer wake. It's a really good technique for very sleepy babies, because it teaches them that they have to be businesslike at the breast, instead of lazing around dozing and sucking lightly. The moment the baby starts slacking off, mom is going to annoy her.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  3. #3

    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    Thanks for your reply! It's encouraging, I'm going to a support group tomorrow so I'll see how much she takes there!
    I completely agree about the EP advice from the pediatrician, esp coming from a male....
    I am going to retry my SNS kit this afternoon, do you know of a good video of getting a baby latched on? Avery always has sucking blister on gopher upper and lower lips, I think that's from a bad latch... What do you think?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    I had a very difficult to nurse daughter. She also had high palate and posterior tongue tie. At 8 weeks of nursing, pumping and bottle feeding ,my LC said we had 3 options - give up and give formula, pump and bottle, or keep triple feeding like we were (nurse, pump, give pumped milk another way, we were doing bottle but now I wish we had used an SNS). I did not want to give up because I had seen that nursing could be comforting to her and I didn't want to miss out on the relationship aspect of nursing. I wish I could say a few weeks later everything clicked and I didn't have to pump any more but ours was a truly more difficult than most situation. I persevered, though, and kept pumping as much as she needed me to until she was a year old and by then she was nursing well enough and on solids enough that she didn't need me to pump. This is how she nursed 39 mos, which I realize isn't every mom's goal but it was great for us. We never would have had that had I chosen to EP and if I had EP'd, I wouldn't have been able to really really cut back on pumping later on and still have a healthy daughter who loved nursing.

    Here's a great video - http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/conte...e=vid-28hrbaby

    http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/conte...me=vid-lactaid on using a lactation aid (SNS in your case).

    Oh, and I have 2 month old twins right now and a month ago they were removing less than a half oz at a session. Now they're fully at breast and I'm just now ditching the pump and feel so victorious!
    Last edited by @llli*krystine; October 6th, 2013 at 09:04 AM.
    Nursed my sweet daughter 3 years, 3 mos.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    Did the LC check her carefully for tongue and lip ties?
    Yes she did, LC says she has a short tongue and recessed jaw, but both mild

    Also, have you tried switch nursing? With switch nursing, you put the baby on breast A, let her nurse, and as soon as she starts to doze off, you take her off the breast, burp her or change her diaper, and then put her on breast B. If she falls asleep on breast B, you switch her back to breast A. You repeat the process as many times as necessary, until she will no longer wake. It's a really good technique for very sleepy babies, because it teaches them that they have to be businesslike at the breast, instead of lazing around dozing and sucking lightly. The moment the baby starts slacking off, mom is going to annoy her.[/QUOTE]
    yes I have, the biggest problem is getting her to wake up, after she sleeps of she is hard to awaken, I spend 5-6 minutes waking her up, for only 3-4 sucks at the breast. Why is that happening? I will try the whole process for about 45 minutes, then give up, mainly cause of the daunting task of pumping and then bottle feeding..

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    Hi plumsake. I am sorry you are having this much difficulty with your third baby. That must be frustrating!

    I think the decision of eping has to be based on what a mom feels is best in her situation. But you want to be well informed about what that would mean-namely, pumping at a bare minimum, 8 times a 24 hour day, and even then, probable difficulty keeping a normal milk production. It might also mean baby's ability to latch & suckle will not improve and will likely get worse, not better, eventually leading to baby refusing the breast. And, your baby (and you) would not experience the proven benefits of breastfeeding. On the other hand, with eping, your baby would be getting your breast milk, or at least, partly your breastmilk, and that is of course far better than full on formula feeding from a health standpoint.

    I think that if my baby was capable of latching and nursing at all, even if I had not one drop of milk in my breasts, I would still nurse my baby (and feed baby another way) The benefits of nursing are too great to dismiss out of hand. But every situation is different.

    Looking at your post, I keep seeing the idea that the inefficiency issue is related to your baby's sleepiness. It just seems to me that that indicates something else is going on, as such sleepiness at this age is unusual. How is weight gain?

    Also while one ounce is not great transfer for a 7 week old, it IS transfer. Baby is capable of nursing and getting milk at the breast. Assuming baby always got one ounce, and if your baby nursed 12 times a 24 hour day, (the normal frequency at this age) baby would be getting at least half of what a 2 week old or older newborn typically needs at the breast. So this sounds like something that can be built on imo.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    Okay ladies so I just tried the SNS starter system, gave her 45ml of pumped breast milk, she took all of it while latched onto first breast within 10 minutes. Did not suck when flow was stopped on SNS or when I switched her to the other side . Post aSNS I pumped total of 2.5oz. , 1 oz of which was on the side she fed from.
    I am happy she did such a good time on the breast, but bit sure how to proceed from here . Please would appreciate any advice!
    Best
    Plum

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    So, how would you evaluate the feed she had with the SNS? Did you feel that she took a good amount from the breast or was she mostly drinking from the SNS? How was her latch while she was using the SNS- was it comfortable, was she sucking on both breast and tube?

    Basically, I think the way to think about the SNS is that it's a tool. You don't have to be wedded to it. If it works- if baby stays latched more and nurses better with it, you use it, you experiment with it, you try to get a sense of whether or not it's helping.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    2,627

    Default Re: Should I just pump?

    Here's what I do : offer first side as long as baby is sucking, switch sides, then when baby slows down, add the tube. That wakes them up and then they get more milk from the tube and me. And there's a learning curve getting the tubing in just right and it didn't really like it at first but now I will never go back to bottles (until I go back to work and DH gives them bottles but I only work away a few days/ month).
    Nursed my sweet daughter 3 years, 3 mos.

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