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Thread: Going Insane!

  1. #11

    Default Re: Going Insane!

    Lllmeg, he was taking in 1-2 oz of formula + pumped milk every 4 hours during that weight increase. I hate giving him formula, because he really doesnt seem to know when he is full, and spits up only on those feedings. I usually end up stopping him short if his belly feels distended. To be fair, he has never shown signs of being full before. Hes never rejected the boob, so to speak, because he tends to fall asleep early.

    Also, i already had to take b-12 supplements, as it is pretty much a requirement for being vegan

    I cant remember if i already mentioned it or not, but my LC told me to no longer worry about waking him at night for feedings, let him lead/cue night feedings on his own, but hes only feeding for maybe 10 minutes every 3-4 hours since ive been doing that. And its been hell to try and wake him up. Its like hes immune to cold rags, and we have crap a/c so hes always down to his diaper right now as it is. Also, im a e/f. And i have to hold my breast, and holding him, its hard to do rubbing/tickling wake up methods, i can do them, but usually only with my pinky. Right now, ive been doing the switch method, because otherwise he'd never nurse more than 5 minutes. I dont think hes ever emtpied a breast yet either, but i couldn't be for sure on that. Whats more, i found out my insurance covers my rental pump, but unfortunately the hospital rents them through the womens gift shop, and they dont bill, so i dont think the insurance will actually reimburse me.

    Feedings have stunk the last two days. My fiance kept us at his dads house for 7 hours yesterday for baby visit, but he told me wed only be there a few hours, and i felt terribly uncomfortable breastfeeding there, and i think my son could tell i was upset and was getting frustrayed feeding.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Going Insane!

    Ok, so baby was gaining like mad, getting between between 6-12 ounces of total supplement (ebm and formula) per day? And is this still what baby is getting? or less?

    Again, is your LC an IBCLC? This is important. "LC" does not really mean anything, although someone who is an LC and not an IBCLC may be very helpful. But an IBCLC has had to prove a certain level of breastfeeding knowledge to the certification board. It is also important what your appointments consist of. Are they anything like this? : http://cwgenna.com/lconsult.html

    Yes, you did mention that your LC said no need to wake baby. Yes, nursing at cues IS typically better, I would agree with this 100% assuming baby is gaining well, and nursing frequently enough overall-at this age, at least 10-12 times per day is normal) BUT if baby is unable to gain properly nursing the amount baby is, and thus is getting supplemented, not waking baby to nurse if baby is sleeping long stretches does not make sense to me. The more often you nurse, even if teh session is short, the more breastmilk baby gets at the breast, the less baby needs via bottle and the less you have to pump.

    Also, A baby who is being OVERFED with bottles will likely be overly sleepy.

    I don't think he's ever emptied a breast yet either, but i couldn't be for sure on that
    "emptying" the breast is typically a non issue. Milk production depends mostly on FREQUENT milk removal, not TOTAL milk removal.

    I cannot imagine why where you rent the pump matters, but let's just say your insurance does not cover it. Insurance only started covering lactation assistance and pumps at all very recently, many of us who have had breastfeeding issues even just a couple years ago have had to pay out of pocket for pumps and to see IBCLCs. Compared to formula feeding, it makes a great deal of financial sense even if you have to pay out of pocket for pumps or to see an IBCLC.

    No more running around and long visits for now- Your baby is a brand newborn, your place is on the couch nursing baby, being taken care of, and getting as much rest as you can. Ask your fiance to help you by supporting you and baby with breastfeeding. Here are some ideas for dad: http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...t_partners.pdf

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Going Insane!

    Also any LLL Groups near you?

  4. #14

    Default Re: Going Insane!

    If I pump 10 times a day, I'm only getting 2.5 oz of breast milk. Will that output ever increase? I'm renting the pump again on Monday, because that's when I will have some money to do it. We live paycheck to paycheck since I don't have a job anymore. Pumping and formula were not even considered during pregnancy.

    I don't know if she is a LC or IBCLC, She is employed by the hospital, and she pretty much covered everything on that list, but i dont see her on a regular basis. I had one consultation, pro bono, and then i see her for 5 minutes in the hall of the weigh station between her appointments to ask how i am doing. The supplementation was started due to my babys pediatricians orders, the pump by the lc. The lc told me to limit the supplementation to 1oz because she felt he was gaining fast, but this was done without the knowledge of my pediatrician. I dont have another appointment with the ped until tuesday. And yes, there is an lll group near me, as well as a breastfeeding group at the hospital. I was planning on going starting next week.

    Side question, I didn't want to use bottles, but my pediatrician told me the cup or dropper method Isn't necessarily recommended, because it teaches the baby it doesnt have to work as hard to get milk, which is not what I understood. I hate bottles, because I can tell he is getting upset when my breast milk doesn't come as fast as a bottle does. Can I use another method for supplementation, or should I just stick with bottles? I like my pediatrician, but I tend to disagree with her feeding philosophy, but I'm not the doctor, so maybe I'm off here...

    And my fiancé is usually extremely supportive, with the exception of that situation (he was completely oblivious to the fact that it was too long of a visit, and his father called us today and invited us to Michigan for a family gathering so everyone else could meet the baby, which I flat out put my foot down on. It angers me, because before he was born, we agreed that we'd have no visits until he was three months. And now he's getting roped into manipulative relatives' guilt trains), and he seems to not understand the importance of the baby having to be woken up at night for feelings, because he turns off my alarms sometimes without waking me.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Going Insane!

    OK, as far as how to supplement baby- my understanding is, there is no proof that a dropper is going to cause less nursing issues than a bottle. But I am not aware of any proof that it will cause more issues either. The main benefit of a syringe or dropper is that it is small so baby is not inadvertently overfed. Personally, If my baby needed supplements and I did not have the funds for an at the breast supplementer (aka lactation aid- by far the best way to supplement the nursing baby) I would cup feed. But as long as you don't put too MUCH in the bottle, and don't lay baby down and basically pour the milk into baby the way everyone does, but let baby be more upright, and the bottle basically horizontal, and help/allow baby to take pauses when drinking from the bottle, (paced bottle feeding) a bottle can be ok. paced bottle feeding: http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfedbaby.pdf and video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UH4T70OSzGs

    Over 10 pumping sessions, you only get 2.5 ounces total all day? OK this has got to be due to an issue with your pump. Was this with the rental pump? If not, Next time you see the LC, tell her you NEED A BETTER PUMP and ask her for help getting one. Also, ask her how you can see her again for a consult if you need and want to. Are you in the US? Do you qualify for WIC? Every WIC office is different but they are supposed to be supporting breastfeeding and They MAY offer breastfeeding services including pumps and lactation consultants.

    You can call your local LLL leader(s), don't wait for a meeting. she may have more info on what resources are around for you.

    Pumping and all that is only needed if you have to keep supplementing. Again, baby is gaining really well so you may be able to stop. Going down to one ounce every other feeding is weaning off the supplements, which is the direction you want to be going.
    An IBCLC is not usually going to tell a mom to go against a doctors orders. She may have discussed this with your pediatrician?

    You are doing really well. Keep putting your foot down. This may help your fiancé put things in perspective: http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...t_partners.pdf He may be feeling unimportant and unsure how to help. I put an alarm under my pillow when I needed to wake to nurse.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Going Insane!

    So the last weigh in, friday, 8/30 - 10lbs 4.5oz. Im frustrated, because he only got 1 oz off of feeding. Maybe it was just a small feeding... Im waiting to see what the ped says on tuesday to figure out how much supplementing i need to do, or dont do. Im wondering if i ever needed to supplement that much, because he was maintaining/slow gain when istarted supplementing, but im confused because when i reduced formula by cutting supplements in half, he has been showing signs of hunger even if his belly is super distended. Is it possible for a baby to not know when to quit eating?

    And yes, the hospital grade pump, medela symphony, only extracts a total of 2.5 oz a day if i was lucky. Its really depressing. I do hand express after pump expression, but i dont get much more out at all. And my leftie barely produces any milk at all during expression, maybe enough to coat the bottom of the collection container. Thank you for your help, insight and suggestions. Ill update with what the ped says on tuesday.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Going Insane!

    So you did a before and after nursing weight check? Was this just on your own at the weigh station?

    Despite the not great (but within normal range) milk transfer at that one session, your baby is gaining awfully well-faster than average- overall for only being supplemented about 6 ounces (?) per day. What I mean is, if that or around that is all you are supplementing, (I am still not clear on how much baby is getting daily in bottles) baby must be getting a fair amount of milk from you to be gaining so extraordinarily well. A baby at this age would typically be taking in about 25-30 ounces per day to be gaining well. So 6 ounces is not going to make THAT much of a difference.

    And yes, the hospital grade pump, medela symphony, only extracts a total of 2.5 oz a day if i was lucky
    But when was this? And what else was going on? Often, Pumps do not work as well as hand expression in the first several days, and if a mother is engorged no milk at all may come out. Also a poor flange pump fit, a worn membrane, I poor tube connection-all can make the pump underperform dramatically. Basically, what you pump or pumped may not have much at all to do with what you make.

    I know it is frustrating to see so little milk when you pump or hand express. But even when the pump or hand expression does not produce much, it is important to keep doing it when supplementing. You want to do all you can to make sure there is frequent and effective milk removal from the breasts.

    But maybe you can back off on the supplements now or soon anyway as baby continues to gain so well.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Going Insane!

    Pumping happened every two hours from 8/15-8/24.
    He has been getting 6 oz daily of formula since 8/23.
    Baby now weighs 10lbs 11.5oz as of yesterday (9/3) and is 22.5 inches.
    My pediatrician's nurse practitioner told me to completely cut the formula out now and they will gauge supplementation (if its needed again or not) at his next appointment, which is when he is two months, a month away. I'll be honest, I'm hesitant of that. I don't know why I am not weaning him off instead. I know I was just complaining about the formula price, but my gut feeling says just pulling off without weight monitoring is a bad idea. A month is a long time to wait to see if he's gaining or not. Again, maybe I'm just an overly worried insane first mom. She also told me not to worry about pumping, and restated the " if he feeds more than 20 minutes per session, he'll burn more than he takes in" concept. She wants me to only feed on one side each session, burp, and then offer the other side after 15 minutes, instead of the switching between sides method that works for me. She also is the one who recommended the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding book at the first appointment.

    This is all frustrating. Is it wrong that I want to ignore the twenty minute feeding sessions, because of the way he feeds? It seems like she wants me to train my baby that if he doesn't eat enough within the allotted time slot, he wont get enough food. Insight?
    Last edited by @llli*studio687; September 4th, 2013 at 12:30 PM.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Going Insane!

    6 oz of formula is not very much, I would just cut him cold turkey from the formula. But I disagree with limiting how long he nurses for, I'd let him nurse as much and for as long as he would like. I've only heard the they will burn more then they take in, in relation to very small preemies.
    Ryder James 1/21/13

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