Supply @ 14 days

[@llli*bfwmomof3]

Don't give up! You've been working so hard at this. And you are not forcing something horrible on him. Giving him substandard nutrition for the rest of his infancy is far worse than letting him struggle at the breast for a few weeks or a month. I know it's hard feeling like your older child is neglected.... but really, a few weeks is not going to make a difference. My 6-year- old and my 3-year-old LOVE when I tell them stories. How about spending some of your pumping time telling stories to your older child, or some similar activity that does not require physical activity on your part?

There will be no need for a guilt trip because you are NOT going to fail. Just get that out of your mind. YOU WILL GET THERE. You have plenty of persistence, you just need a little patience!

[@llli*apifera]

I was thinking more like trying to exclusively pump. At least as long as it is sustainable. Which is likely to make me a bit of a shut in since everything is so far away here. I guess I just need to get my head clear because I'm getting pretty blue about it.

[@llli*bfwmomof3]

Exclusively pumping is no walk in the park... as you're already experiencing! As you've pointed out, pumping in public is difficult, and even pumping at home gets harder as baby gets older and more mobile. And it is so much easier and nicer to just nurse in the middle of the night, then to drag yourself out of bed to pump. Then there's all the bottle washing and bottle warming. And it can be hard to maintain supply while EP'ing. And, although expressed breast milk is better than formula, drinking expressed milk from the bottle is not the same as nursing. If that's where you end up, that's where you end up - but you don't want to end up there unless you really, really, really can't nurse, you know? And you've already shown that you CAN nurse. So today he's being fussy but yesterday he did it - which means tomorrow or the next day he'll do it again.

[@llli*bfwmomof3]

Also, you mentioned PPD in a previous post and now, feeling blue - are you getting help with that?

[@llli*apifera]

Not yet. I think this is normal frustration related to a hard situation at this point, but I come from a family of therapists and know how and when to contact someone should I turn the corner. If I have to go on meds or something I'm more than willing. I definitely don't want to go through PPD again.

[@llli*bfwmomof3]

Good to hear. It is hard, and it makes sense you're frustrated, and sometimes that stress can put people over the edge, so I'm glad to hear you have a good network you can rely on.

[@llli*auderey]

Every story I've read or heard said that once baby got it baby GOT it. And that was that.

this is DEFINITELY NOT how every story i've ever heard goes. in fact, i'd say MOST of the stories on this board - particularly about getting baby back to breast - are two steps forward and one step back. and you ARE making steps forward! so keep coming for advice, keep pushing forward.

[@llli*apifera]

So after an attempt this morning we think we've identified what's going on.

As I mentioned, when baby was weighed after feeding with the shield on Friday he had only transferred 18 ml after about half an hour of being on. Even my LC was perplexed cause he was actively feeding for so long, even with the slowing down caused by the shield that seemed low.

Anyway, baby was just latched for a minute or so today and I actually let down, and he kept popping off and we couldn't figure out why... my husband noticed that there was tons of milk around the nipple but not at the end, so his theory is that he has a hard time sucking the milk out of the shield. Which makes sense since he has sucking problems. So not only is he frustrated by the slow let down he's frustrated that it comes out so slowly and with so much work. He started screaming and crying and I don't know why, when it was going so very well. We guess it's just frustration with his inability to get the milk out of the shield.

The LC says his tongue thrusts forward so we're doing exercises with the bottle/paci/fingers to push it down- okay good... she says his suck is improving. It was very weak and now it's like a cyclone. Awesome. His tongue is still an issue.

Sorry, my five year old keeps coming in and I lost my train of thought... but basically what I'm saying is that is it possible he just CAN'T do this at this point? How feasible is it that I can keep my supply up for months? I am scared I won't be able to pump when I'm alone without stressing him out. I read that by week 12 MOST babies, even fully resistant ones, can learn to latch. Can I keep it up till then?

Am I teaching him to cry for the bottle if I give it to him right away at the breast when he's frustrated? I have been handing him to daddy to feed and then I go pump but I don't want him just associating me with stress! Between all the pumping etc I am missing out on major bonding time. I tried skin to skin yesterday and he freaked out when I took my shirt off, thinking I was going to try to nurse! The thing is I am not forceful. I generally stop the very second he seems irritated. So the fact that he's clearly getting an aversion this easily is scary..

Should we do away with the shield and hope baby can eventually just latch without it if we keep trying?

[@llli*lllmeg]

I would suggest that you discuss this with your IBCLC. She observed a nursing session just yesterday. Don’t you think she would have noticed this? So, there was not any milk in the tip of the shield at the moment it was observed, which is when it is NOT in baby’s mouth. Maybe baby DRANK what was in the tip. Milk getting/being seen around the nipple inside the shield even after baby has nursed is normal in my personal exp.

If you let down in one minute you do not have slow letdown. Or at least, did not, for that session. If the slow letdown can come and go, maybe it is in part situational?

18 mils is a little over half an ounce. Not great transfer, but not nothing either. Stop thinking this is nothing. This could be normal transfer because studies have shown that per session milk transfer in normal healthy babies who are gaining fine (and not using shields) varies from ZERO to a few ounces. I am not saying there are not transfer issues, there probably are. But the 18 ml is what happened at ONE session. It does not tell the entire story. (btw Did baby pee during those 30 minutes and was that taken into account during the weight check?)

I tried skin to skin yesterday and he freaked out when I took my shirt off, thinking I was going to try to nurse!

How do you know he was freaking out thinking you were going to nurse? Maybe he was freaking out with a desire TO nurse. Babies fuss and squirm when they see mamas breasts because they are hard wired to equate the breast with food and comfort. Or maybe something else was bothering baby.

I would suggest you can certainly try to latch baby without the shield if you want, but no need to 'do away with it.' weaning off the shield is exactly like anu other type of weaning-it is a process. It takes time.

I suggest talk to your ibclc again.

[@llli*auderey]

with everything meg says.