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Thread: Frustrated

  1. #1

    Default Frustrated

    Hi ladies. I apologize in advance if this gets long. I breastfed my first son for over three years. When he was tiny we suspected thrush, but after treatment that didn't help much, we landed at vasospasms/Reynaulds. I was able to keep it under control with Niacin.

    Our second little guy was born April 19 via c-section (incomplete breech and many unsuccessful tries to get him to turn). We had no problems nursing for the first few weeks. He was latched on while I was still on the operating table. As time went on I started cracking and experiencing a lot of pain during the latch and with each suck. The vasospasms had also started again and I began taking Niacin. Thursday morning, May 16 I was engorged and used a manual pump and pumped out blood (it was all red...didn't look like blood mixed with milk). I met with an IBLC that afternoon and she found tongue tie. The next Monday I got it clipped, but by then I was in pretty intense pain. That night things felt a little better, but there was not a significant improvement.

    By Wednesday my nipples were flaking and burning (in addition to the extreme cracking/bleeding/blisters horror we were already dealing with). I called the IBLC about thrush. We met and she confirmed my suspicions (flaking and shiny nipples/white in baby's mouth). She felt like the tongue tie had led to shallow latch which had led to the cracks which had led to the thrush having a place to thrive in. That day the on-call OB called in a 150mg Diflucan (mine was out of town). I also started taking grapefruit seed extract and acidophilus. Thursday night I felt some improvement, but by Friday it was burning again.

    The OB called in another 150mg RX and the pediatrician called in oral meds for the baby. I had no improvement and made an appointment with my OB Wednesday. She felt confident we were dealing with a bad case of thrush and wrote four 150mg doses to be taken every other day for the next week and suggested a full panel of probiotics.

    Over the week things improved significantly. (I was also using polysporin on the cracks and nystatin ointment). Last Tuesday I took the last dose and thought we were in the clear thrush-wise. I was only experiencing vasospasm pain. (When the AC kicks on, fan is on, after shower, after nursing, the nipple changes color and the pain is in the nipple and directly behind the nipple vs in the whole breast and down the sides like I was experiencing the prior weeks. The Niacin does not seem to be helping this time around.). Last Friday morning there was flaking and pain again. I called the OB (again) and she said if I had felt improvement (I definitely had) that she would call in another week. If I hadn't she said she wasn't sure I should continue trying the diflucan.

    This week I have seen improvement again and am only experiencing the vasospasm pain. It is tolerable. I am no longer screaming, cussing, bawling, hitting the bed while he nurses. I'm not (as) worried that I won't be able to do this long term, but I am still concerned about the thrush coming back again after my last dose tomorrow. I'm so VERY beat down by the washing everything in vinegar, boiling pacifiers, taking a zillino different pills, giving him med, and using multiple ointments.

    So I guess I'm wondering if anyone else has been in this predicament. How long can I take diflucan? Is there something I'm missing in regards to thrush treatment? If the Niacin hasn't worked for the vasospasms should I try something else? (I read about calcium/magnesium and also a rx?) The IBLC is recommending I go to a dermatologist, but I'm not sure what they would/could do?

    Thanks for sharing your experience/advice if you made it to the end of this novel.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Ontario
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    Default Re: Frustrated

    Ok, if I'm understanding correctly, you've had about 6 doses of diflucan over the past couple of weeks? I think that's probably not enough. Dr. Newman recommends a 400 mg loading dose and then 100 mg twice daily until you're pain free for a week. So it sounds to me like you might need another go round.

    Are you using diluted GSE on your nipples and in your LO's mouth? How are you treating the baby for thrush? is he taking a probiotic as well?

    I had vasospasms for quite a while, and they did last for a bit after the thrush was gone. I took the niacin, as well as a Calcium/Magnesium supplement, and I actually found that getting some aerobic exercise in helped quite a bit (I know, like you've got time for that between de-yeasting everything! But I swear, it helped). Good luck mama, and please let us know how it goes!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Frustrated

    I've had a total of 9 150mg doses and one left for tomorrow. (Wed 5/22, Fri 5/24, Wed 5/29, Fri 5/31, Sun 6/1, Tues 6/4, Fri 6/7, Sun 6/9, Tues 6/11) a 400mg loading dose & twice daily is totally different. ugh.

    The baby only has liquid Nystatin. Would a health food store have a liquid GSE and probiotic?

    Thanks for the help. It's nice to know others have come out on the other side.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ontario
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    616

    Default Re: Frustrated

    I got the liquid GSE at a Pure Nature store here in Canada. I ordered HMF Natogen infant probiotic online, but you can use regular probiotics -just open a capsule and put some of the powder on your finger for the baby to suck off.

    Here's the link for the Dr. Newman thrush protocol, if you scroll down the page you'll find the info about the Diflucan http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/conte...agename=doc-CP

    Thrush truly sucks. I've felt your pain, mama. But it can get better

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    middle of IA
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    Default Re: Frustrated

    this sounds awful!!! i'm so sorry.

    it sounds like you have a really supportive OB. can you bring her Newman's treatment protocol and get her to prescribe that bigger course of diflucan?

    i had a minor case of thrush and liquid GSE on my nipples & baby's mouth cleared it right up, so i would DEFINITELY do that in addition.
    DS1 6/7/11
    DS2 10/29/13

    Nursing, pumping, cloth-diapering, babywearing, working professor mama with the awesomest SAHD ever.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    5,257

    Default Re: Frustrated

    There are skin conditions of the breast and nipple that a dermatologist may be very helpful for. I know of a mom who saw a dermatologist for thrush (everyone thought it was thrush but it was not responding to treatment) and the dermatologist diagnosed a bacterial infection of the nipple. Of course, this particular dermatologist knew a lot about breastfeeding.

    If your IBCLC suggests you seeing an dermatologist, I suggest, ask her why and what questions you should ask and what tests to request (if any.) She may be suspecting something is going on besides thrush or that the dermatologist will have better ideas for treatment.

    I suggest read the entire Newman thrush protocol. If your IBCLC has the textbook Breastfeeding Answers Made Simple, there is a long section in there about the dermatologic issues that can cause nipple pain that she could read to you, and also a good section on avoiding thrush reoccurrence.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Frustrated

    Thank you ladies for all the help. Just after I wrote this, things dramatically improved and he nursed pain free for four weeks. Last week the flaking came back and I was feeling slight burning in and just behind the nipple after each feed. I called my OB immediately so we could try to stay on top of things. She called in another four doses of 150mg diflucan to take every other day. Her nurse said that the dr suggested I consider weaning because this seems to be a chronic issue and from a medical perspective diflucan can't be taken long term as it could do damage to my liver (?). I have been using the liquid GSE on my nipples twice daily (hard to keep up with more than that with a 3 year old) and taking GSE, probiotics and Calcium/Magnesium. The burning and flaking as remained the same over the week and may have improved slightly. I do not experience the burning with every feeding, but it still happens a few times daily and the flaking shows up after showers and randomly throughout the day.

    I am going to the OB tomorrow and would like to discuss it further with her. If I can maintain this level of flaking/burning, I can keep going (and obviously that is my hope/plan), but I'm afraid once I stop the diflucan, the pain will increase and cracks will develop. I can't continue if it gets as bad as it was in early June. I'm planning to take the Newman protocol with me and ask her about writing for his ointment. I also would like to discuss why she is so insistent on the 150mg every other day for a week plan when it is such a smaller dose than he suggests. I was thinking about asking her to do a culture for a bacterial infection? I just would like to figure out if there is another root cause for these symptoms other than thrush--especially since I had similar (though less severe) symptoms with my first. Any ideas on something else it could be, specific questions I should ask or general advice? Thanks.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    middle of IA
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    1,885

    Default Re: Frustrated

    thrush can be really difficult to get rid of - it hangs out in your clothes, sheets, bottles, frozen milk. your plan sounds like a good one to me. i don't know anything about not taking diflucan longterm, but i would want to ask about that more. i do not think that weaning is the answer; thrush isn't CAUSED by continued nursing.
    DS1 6/7/11
    DS2 10/29/13

    Nursing, pumping, cloth-diapering, babywearing, working professor mama with the awesomest SAHD ever.

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