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Thread: Beyond sore, feeding/sucking every 10-20 minutes...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Unhappy Beyond sore, feeding/sucking every 10-20 minutes...

    My 5 wk old seems like her suck has gotten weaker. I had to supplement in the beginning because of her weight loss, she has since gained enough to avoid the doctors office until her two month check up.

    I have been trying to pump in preparation for work, I plan on going to work when she is two months old and I know I need at least 1-1.5oz per hour at work...I can only pump maybe 1.5oz from both sides at a time, when she's asleep long enough for me to pump

    In the last few days, she has started sucking more than eating, and her suck feels weaker. We broke her of the paci in her third week to reestablish her latch and it got better, until now...she will latch properly, then pull her head back so that she only has nipple in her mouth, when I pull her off and re-latch, she does the same thing and cries...it is really tempting to just give her formula so that I can get a break, my nipples can get a break, and so that I know how much she is getting at a time...any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Beyond sore, feeding/sucking every 10-20 minutes...

    I would suggest a lactation consult if you have that resource in your area regarding the latch issue. I had a lot of pain and latch issues and they were a big support.

    You will get more milk when you are pumping at work cause baby won't be with you. I was nervous in the beginning too cause every time I tried pumping bf going back to work I got hardly anything. That first day I pumped at work I was shocked how much I pumped. Just make sure you pump regularly. Hang in there!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Beyond sore, feeding/sucking every 10-20 minutes...

    I agree with pp esp. about pumping. If your baby is fully breastfed, anything you pump now is really "extra." When you are back to work, you will pump instead of when baby would normally nurse. It makes a big difference. But do make sure your pump is the right kind of pump for the job, fits you well, and is new and in good working order.

    What pops into my head when I hear the latch 'pull back' issues you describe is-1) baby not liking the nursing position, or 2) forceful letdown.

    How do you nurse baby? What positions have you tried, what seem to work 'best?"

    Does baby seem to sputter or gag or cough ever on the breast? Does baby seem calm when nursing or kind of frantic, desperately swallowing?

    How does latch feel? Does it feel ok and then hurt when baby pulls back? Ort does it alwasy hurt? Soreness is due to a not good latch (and some othermore rare issues) and not due to how often a baby nurses.

    How often does baby nurse in a 24 hour day and how often are you pumping? How is babies output? (poops) And baby is not longer getting any bottles (for now) right? It might make sense to put away the pump for the next few weeks and just work on nursing baby frequently and comfortably without other pressures. You only need enough milk stored in the freezer for your first day back at work, theoretically, although of course many moms prefer to have a little extra as back up stash.

    The best way to ensure breastfeeding is not sent off the rails by mom’s return to work is to have breastfeeding going smoothly at the time you return. This is much more important that how much milk you have saved up in the freezer.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Beyond sore, feeding/sucking every 10-20 minutes...

    Thank you Candace! I have had a consult with an IBCLC when she was 9 days old, falling asleep at the breast, and of course, she latched and ate just fine at the consult!

    Lllmeg: I have the medela freestyle pump, went all out when I was gung ho with breastfeeding and only wanting my baby to have breast milk. I have had much better output from that than the cheap-charlie pump I bought earlier.

    I don't believe I have forceful letdown, on the pump and with her on the breast it takes at least 30 seconds to a minute for milk to start. When she is on the breast she takes her time sucking and might snack and other times she latches and gulps like she has been starved. She pulls back about the same time every day, now that I think about it.

    I have tried every position to nurse. It was recommended by the IBCLC that I stick with the football hold until we were established since that is the "easiest" position. And that's what I did. Now I use cradle, cross, and football during the day and side laying during the night. Football and cross cradle seem to work best during the day, and I have had minimal issues with side laying at night, nothing to make me quit using it.

    No sputter, gag, or cough at the breast. There are times that she screaches, like she's been starved, and I just picked her up to feed her. Other times I can get her to latch while she's sucking on her hand and she seems like she could take it or leave it, whatever... She most of the time will start sucking short and quick, then still quick, will actually eat some. She falls asleep about half way through the first side so I take her off, burp her, then put her back on, then she falls back to sleep so I don't usually offer both breasts. I know she needs the hindmilk and I wonder if she's getting it. The IBCLC suggested I feed her on one side while pumping the other, then when she's done put her on the pumped side, where she should get the hindmilk...I haven't tried that yet, not sure how I will position her to facilitate that.

    Latch is tough!!! Sometimes it's great, others, not so much, mostly a little painful. When she's done on the left side, I notice my nipple looks like i had a clothespin on it! I have tried resettting her latch, but I can't seem to get her to open her mouth wide enough, and if I do, she fixes herself so she's only around the nipple and a little bit of areola. Her upper lip has always curled under with latch, on me, pacifier, and bottle. We have tried fixing it on all three to no avail. We have also tried and quit bottle and pacifier, I'm not confident that hers and my latch is established enough to introduce anything else. My nipples are constantly sore, they were feeling better for a few days, then the soreness returned. I have lanolin, which I use religiously, and it helps with the new cracks since she's started opening her mouth less.

    I would say she nurses at least 10 times in 24 hours, and I have only had time to pump once or twice a day if I'm lucky! Her output is generally good, soaking wet diapers at least 6 times a day, and one to four yellow poopy diapers a day.

    She falls asleep on the breast, and after I feel like she has eaten "enough", I try to remove her in hopes that she'll sleep, and she wakes up, sometimes fussy, and sometimes just wide awake. If I leave her on, she'll suck a little then sleep, not eating, then stop and sleep some more, then suck, then eat a tiny bit, then sleep, by the time she actually lets go I'm in so much pain it's crazy! If I remove her and leave her on my chest or in my arms, she will stay asleep, but as soon as I put her down she's up and mad...I need more patience with this, I know sometimes she just wants to be close to me while she sleeps, but I also know she needs to get used to her crib and sleeping alone...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Beyond sore, feeding/sucking every 10-20 minutes...

    Your baby sounds normal. Everything she is doing sounds normal. Falling asleep at the breast, nursing different lengths of time, wanting to nurse frequently sometimes and not others-all normal and appropriate. It is also normal for baby to sleep better in your warm arms. This is basic survival for a baby. Your baby is smart and knows that babies left alone get eaten. Your baby does not know it is 2013 and there are no saber tooths around to eat it. There is no reason at all to put a baby in a crib except as a temporary place to park baby safely if you cannot hold her. For most of history and still in most of the world, cribs are unknown.

    As far as breastfeeding goes, there are two areas of concern that I see-that it hurts you to nurse, and the question of if baby is getting enough.

    You can usually tell pretty well that a baby is getting enough by how much they poop. But your baby is now at the age where poop frequency may decrease-at times, dramatically, with several days in between poops-and it's normal. So if your baby keeps pooping at least 3 times a day, great. If not, do not panic, but then you may need to check her weight gain so you don't turn to formula unnecessarily. At this point baby ‘should’ gain ‘about’ 6 ounces a week.

    Nursing 10-12 times a day or more is normal and needed at this age. You cannot nurse your baby too often. But since it is not comfortable for you to nurse, I get that for you, this normal nursing frequency is very hard. But it does not indicate a need to supplement. It indicates a need to fix whatever the problem is.

    I think you might want to clarify the pumping advice with your IBCLC. Pumping in order to "get to" hind milk is not needed if baby is gaining enough-gaining normally-and even in cases where baby is not gaining enough, would be unusual advice. If a baby is not gaining due to what baby is being fed (as opposed to some disorder or illness) it is almost always because baby is not getting enough breastmilk overall. Too much foremilk typically occurs in babies with very good weight gain! All breastmilk is high in calories and healthy fats, and the change from foremilk to hindmilk occurs gradually over a feeding. Trying to give more 'fatty' breastmilk to a baby is a difficult process and typically only called for with some very small, or some premature, or some low birth weight or very slow gaining babies who otherwise would be given special, high fat formula to increase rapidity of weight gain. There is nothing wrong with the suggestion to pump while nursing-except that that is very likely to make nursing a tremendous hassle. And no new mommy needs that! Way easier to fix latch and encourage baby to nurse more often.

    I would also suggest that if baby falls asleep on one side, offer baby the other side. There is no reason to stay on one side for a certain amount of time. "switch nursing" has long been used to increase weight gain and milk production.

    For latch I suggest experiment with laid back positioning, aka biological nurturing. This not only often improves latch, it is a comfortable, relaxed nursing position for both baby and mom. Most pictures etc. about this show mom really laid back, like on a bed propped with pillows. But if that is not comfortable for you or baby you can be much less reclined. I am sitting in an office chair doing laid back nursing right now. It may feel awkward at first but this really may help. Play around with it.

    If you cannot get latch more comfortable on your own it is time to see an IBCLC again. Once you and your baby are comfortable nursing, breastfeeding your baby has a chance to become the easy joy and excellent mothering tool it is meant to be.

    latch and positioning ideas

    Tips on latch and positioning http://www.llli.org/faq/positioning.html

    Laid back position http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfeeding.pdf

    laid back video http://www.biologicalnurturing.com/video/bn3clip.html

    Here are two simple pictorials, one on latch, one on tongue tie http://cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

    latch and 'Breast sandwich' article http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvfebmar04p3.html

    What is normal in the early weeks with a breastfed baby http://kellymom.com/bf/normal/newborn-nursing/

    Encouraging baby to nurse- Help-my baby won’t nurse! http://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/child/back-to-breast/

    Nipple shields http://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/child/wean-shield/

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2013

    Default Re: Beyond sore, feeding/sucking every 10-20 minutes...

    http://www.breastlinked tofeed.com/how-to/basics/breastfeeding-a-newborn

    Thank you for the fantastic info and encouragement!!! I found the article above that puts breastfed babies' actions/needs into perspective, linked to one of the articles you posted.

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