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Thread: Losing milk supply

  1. #11
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    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    Paced feeding us taking breaks for burping etc? If so, yes.

    Slowest flow teats I could get for the bottles. Yes.

    I feed him until he stops crying for food and goes calm and stops doing the rooting mouth (he does the mouth, it's just he prefers to aim it away from where any food might be)
    Last edited by @llli*pixi; February 16th, 2013 at 01:19 PM.

  2. #12
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    May 2006
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*pixi View Post
    I have a Medela swing (single) but I have, today, hired a hospital grade double pump. I'm boiling up the bits at the moment to sterilise them.

    As long as time allows, I pump for as long as the milk is flowing plus 2 mins. It can be anything from 10 to 25 mins per side.
    Excellent! A mom who is going to EP- whether because she wants to or because she has been forced to- absolutely needs a top-of-the-line double electric pump with correctly sized shields, preferably a hospital grade pump. I cannot tell you how much of a difference a good pump can make! If you pump 10-25 minutes with the hospital grade pump, I think you will get a lot more milk than you have been thus far- though again, 34 oz per day is actually in excess of the average daily needs for a breastfed baby.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  3. #13
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    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    The other thing about the double pump is that if it reduces my pumping time per expression. I might be able to fit more into the day...

    I worry though, because where I have managed to fit in an extra session it rarely seems to make much difference to my daily output.

    As for me giving him more than the standard requirements. I don't know how to move away from that. Surely I shouldn't leave him hungry??

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*pixi View Post
    I worry though, because where I have managed to fit in an extra session it rarely seems to make much difference to my daily output.
    When it comes to improving supply, you shouldn't expect the odd session here or there to do the trick. You want to aim for consistency, pumping at more or less the same time of day for several days in a row, in order for increased stimulation to have a really noticeable effect. That's not to say that the odd session slipped in from time to time is worthless- it's not! But you're not going to see a big jump in production just from one extra session.

    As for me giving him more than the standard requirements. I don't know how to move away from that. Surely I shouldn't leave him hungry??
    Of course you don't want him hungry! But you also don't want him overfull, and if he's eating 40 oz per day he's probably being overfed at least some of the time. kellymom.com has some good tips on bottle-feeding:
    http://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/f...ottle-feeding/
    http://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/pumping/milkcalc/
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  5. #15
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    Jun 2009
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    Per pump depends when I last pumped. Daily output is about 850ml (34oz). His current daily requirement is about 1000ml (40oz)
    !!!!!!!

    According to Breastfeeding Answers Made Simple, the 2010 lactation consultant textbook by Nancy Mohrbacher, normal intake for a breastfed baby 1 month plus is 25-35 ounces of breastmilk a 24 hour day.

    I think there may be some confusion here about what constitutes a normal feed or normal pump output. A normal feed for a breastfed baby is 2-4 ounces per feeding 8-12 (or more) times a day. If you are pumping 34 ounces a day, using a single sided pump, and only pumping 6 times a day, you must be pumping almost 6 ounces at a time! This is an unusually high amount. this suggests you may have or had overproduction, not underproduction. And that your baby is being slightly overfed, which is very typical when bottle feeding.

    Overproduction has the potential to cause many breastfeeding issues including breast refusal due to forceful letdown.

    If you have not already, Could you read this article and tell us if any of the following symptoms are now or have ever been evident? http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supp.../fast-letdown/

    How many of the 11 people that you saw were Board Certified Lactation Consultants (IBCLCs)? If they were IBCLC's and did not offer you any explanation for what is going on, that concerns me. Yes, sometimes (rarely) a baby just won't latch or suck well no matter what anyone does. But some clue as to why? A professional should have been able to offer you at least that, or if not, to offer to do more research and get back to you.

    By the way, even though 34 ounces a day is normal milk production, if you continue to pump 6 times a day, you will likely see a reduction in milk production. This is just biological fact, no one is suggesting you are slacking off, we are well aware how incredibly, harshly demanding exclusive pumping is! On the other hand, even if your milk production does lessen over time and you need to supplement with formula, the breastmilk your baby does get has many benefits. Studies are clear that some breastmilk is way better than none.

    But considering the production you are reporting, I think you could ep for quite some time if you were able to add just a few more pumping sessions. But I also really wonder if you could still get baby back to the breast, which is a gazillion times easyer. I see lots of reasons that you could. Certainly, one thing the issue is not, is too little milk production.
    Last edited by @llli*lllmeg; February 16th, 2013 at 09:45 PM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    I feed him until he stops crying for food and goes calm and stops doing the rooting mouth (he does the mouth, it's just he prefers to aim it away from where any food might be)
    Babies nurse for comfort, not just hunger. This is normal and needed. What you describe above is exactly why bottlefed babies are so often overfed-because the baby is signaling they want to suckle more, not necessarily eat more. I am really in shock that you saw 11 breastfeeding helpers and no one talked about this. It sounds as if you have tried nursing at this point (after the bottle) and it does not work-but some babies latch only after many weeks or even months of trying, really. But if baby won't latch but is still rooting after a feeding, what about doing other comfort measures, if baby will not or cannot nurse?
    Last edited by @llli*lllmeg; February 16th, 2013 at 09:52 PM.

  7. #17
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    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    I messed up the conversion into oz. I work in ml.

    He's taking up to 34 a day. And I'm producing about 28 or 29.

    I believe 2 of the people were ilcbc qualified. No, neither offered any explanation - the last one I spoke to just said it might just click with him, but until then try not to stress him out.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    ok, sorry i did not check the math, I think in ounces and find it impossible to do otherwise!

    This is still excellent milk production. So you have been doing very well. I hope with the new pump you will be able tp add at least a couple more sessions per day until you are able to get baby to latch. Once baby is latching and nursing of course you can then start eliminating pumping sessions.

    I certainly agree stressing baby (and mom) out is never a good idea. But there are many ways to gently encourage a baby to take the breast without stressing anyone out. It is also true that sometimes it just takes time before baby gets it. But it is important to keep offering to nurse or giving baby the opportunity to nurse, maybe not constantly but with some good frequency, so that the opportunity for that 'click' is there.

    I assume you have seen this article? These are all excellent ideas for gently encouraging baby to nurse at the breast. Sometimes things have to be tried many times before they work. Also, adjust as needed. For example if skin to skin is not practical, try snugggling baby on your chest, while giving baby easy access. http://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/child/back-to-breast/

    Did forceful let down fit, at all?

  9. #19
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    Feb 2013
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    No, doesn't fit at all. We don't get that far at all. He simply refuses to latch. On the very rare occasion he latches, he seems to nurse quite well.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Default Re: Losing milk supply

    Was he suctioned pretty hard after birth? I've read that babies who get aggressive suctioning can end up with an aversion to latching...

    Definitely try the tricks from the kellymom.com link LLLMeg posted- the instant reward and skin-to-skin techniques are said to be especially helpful. If your LO goes into that frantic, head-bobbing, mouth opening and shutting, crying state when you try to latch him on, one thing that might help is to offer him your pinky finger to suck on (nail held down towards the tongue, rather than up towards the delicate palate). Sometimes a few seconds of sucking on a finger will remind a frantic baby that sucking is the answer to his problem, and will calm his behavior enough to enable a repeat latch attempt.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

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