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Thread: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    With respect to the pain, I hear you about wanting some relief. Hopefully the LC can help you get that better quickly and your baby will grow quickly so you don't have so much difficulty. Unfortunately, bottlefeeding may contribute to this problem, because it may prevent your baby from learning how to get a good latch. Hang in there, it WILL get easier.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    OK, my first post was so long I skipped saying anything about latch pain.
    If it hurts to nurse, that usually means the latch is off somehow. Usually it is 'shallow.' Latch could look great, but when it hurts, pay attention. While this is common, especially in the early days, it is not 'normal.' In other words, latch/nursing pain should not be ignored. It's a red flag. Yes it may improve with practice and time. But it may not. Obviously it hurts, and that is the number one reason to get a painful latch fixed fast. The other is, may harm how well baby can extract milk.

    I see you are going to see an LC. Good. Here is generally what to expect from an appointment with a board certified lactation consultant (IBCLC)appointment-the appointment lasts at least an hour, she takes a history, listens to your concerns, looks in baby's mouth, looks at you, watches you nurse, and gives you ideas and adjustments. If she does not watch you nurse and at least try to help you latch and nurse more comfortably, then it is important to find someone who will do that.

    I am going to link to some good latch and positioning articles, but it would be really great if you could get some hands on assistance.

    I understand you don't want to wake your baby. And maybe it is not needed in your case. Sometimes it isn't. But I think you will agree it is very important for a young baby to get enough breast milk as they are growing at an incredible rate. It's nothing like eating for an adult. You can survive for a week or more without eating at all! Your baby cannot. And a newborn only takes in a small amount at a time. And it’s necessary for building good milk production for milk to be extracted frequently-by baby. Pumping in the early days is for when baby cannot nurse. However, if your pain is so bad you cannot nurse your baby due to the pain, then yes, you need to pump. Also, some IBCLCs would suggest some 'extra' pumping because you are using the sheild. But whether that is warrranted in your case or not would be a question for your IBCLC.

    I am sorry you are confused about the 'experts say every two to four hours' thing. But I think that if you go to anyone with BREASTFEEDING expertise, they are not saying it's ok to nurse a brand newborn every 4 hours! The science clearly shows that a newborn who nurses every 4 hours (so, only 6 times a day) would almost certainly not be able to get enough milk to grow and would begin to lose weight rather than gain, and his mothers milk production is likely to tank. In fact such feeding schedules have been linked to failure to thrive in breastfed infants.

    If you nursed every two hours, that would be 12 times a day. Baby would probably get enough. But you would probably have to be waking baby constantly to nurse, and never ever get a break. It's just not doable long term, it's exhausting for mother and child.

    With cue feeding, baby nurses frequently when awake, and then can take the occasional longer sleep stretch. It's the way most babies typically ‘do it.’ Doesn't that sound easier and more manageable to you than following a schedule that has you nursing every such and such hours?

    Cue feeding (as long as baby cues frequently enough) is the most effective way to ensure mother's milk production and that baby gets enough. That is what the science says. The "every two to four hours" schedule is based on formula feeding. Breastfeeding is nothing like formula feeding. And in fact, the latest thinking is that even formula fed babies might benefit from being cue fed, as scheduling leads to overfeeding with bottles and may be linked to obesity.

    ok here are some latch and positioning ideas that I hope help make nursing more comfortable.

    Laid back breastfeeding http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfeeding.pdf

    Latch help pictorial http://cwgenna.com/quickhelp.html

    Breast sandwich- http://www.llli.org/llleaderweb/lv/lvfebmar04p3.html
    '

    You asked about personal experiences so I will tell you mine. My oldest (now 9 years old) had lots of trouble latching, we used the nipple shield, and we had weight gain concerns. So I did the nurse every two hours thing. Plus pumping after EVERY SESSION which was the recommendation when using shields at the time. Once we were past the initial weight gain concerns at about a 3 or 4 weeks (?-it’s a blur) we let him sleep as long as he wanted and cue feed. That first night he slept for 5 hours but after that, he nursed just as many times a day, but on his own 'schedule' and it was so much easier for us all!

    My now 5 month old took long sleep stretches early on and I definitely woke her to nurse during the night in the first two to three weeks even though she was gaining fine. Why? because when I didn't, I got so engorged I developed mastitis.

    And the itching did not come back!

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    this short video is nice too. Shows very early cuing as well as laid back positioning http://www.biologicalnurturing.com/video/bn3clip.html

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    I'm having an interesting night with my LO. She fed at 6pm, again at 9pm and again at 10pm. Would this be called cluster feeding? Normally she sleeps for maybe 4 or 5 hours before waking to eat and normally that is only because she doesn't like sitting in a wet diaper. She keeps changing things up on me and it's confusing. When she cries I do the normal routine, too hot/cold, lonely, wet/dirty and then hungry. But what to do if those don't work? Could it be gas if she still won't settle. How can I do what I need to do without upsetting her so much. I had to wake her to change her tonight and it took an hour of screaming before my husband took over and calmed her down enough for her to go back to sleep.

    I'm so confused as to what to do, I want to let her tell me when she is hungry, I don't want to force it on her, if she is sleeping, surely she isn't hungry, if she was, she would wake and let me know....right? However I want to get in the right amount of feeds so she thrives... I can't win o.O

    Thanks for the help so far, will be taking a look at all of the resources you posted.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    She fed at 6pm, again at 9pm and again at 10pm. Would this be called cluster feeding?
    This is just normal feeding for a newborn. It's normal and fine. As long as baby is nursing 10 or more times a day and gaining, it is fine. It will change and change and change again. A rhythm will emerge, it usually does, but you are still a few weeks from that most likely.

    As far as I know, cluster feeding has no particular time frame to define it. For one baby, nursing every hour might be cluster feeding. For another, nursing every 15 minutes would be cluster feeding. All cluster feeding means is nursing tends to happen in a series of clusters rather than in equally spaced intervals. This is generally how most newborns nurse.

    All the books complicate things. I bet my long posts are complicated and I am sorry about that. It's really NOT complicated. Nurse when your baby cues, at the earliest cues, as long as baby cues often enough that baby nurses at least 10 times a day. If baby is NOT nursing at least 10 times a day, wake baby to nurse as needed. That is all you need to know about nursing frequency right now. Yes it seems counterintuitive to wake a baby but babies this young WILL SOMETIMES sleep through feedings. Especially if baby is in a crib in another room, swaddled, or using a pacifier. If you are holding baby while baby sleeps, or sleeping in the same room as baby, baby may wake more often naturally.

    When she cries I do the normal routine, too hot/cold, lonely, wet/dirty and then hungry. But what to do if those don't work?
    I suggest, if your baby cues, nurse first. If baby does not want to nurse, or nurses but is then fussy, THEN try other comfort measures. And then, offer to nurse again.

    Don't worry about gas. Gas is a non-issue. Really. Babies get gas, they cry, they burp or pass gas, problem solved.

    You cannot nurse too often. I promise you. I know it hurts you to nurse and that is a real problem, hopefully to be solved soon. But it is a problem of a not comfortable latch, NOT of baby nursing too much.

    These early days are very hard, They are physically and emotionally draining. You are learning your baby and adjusting to this new life as a mother and learning how to survive on almost no sleep. It is incredibly hard. It will get better and easier, usually pretty quickly.
    Last edited by @llli*lllmeg; January 20th, 2013 at 01:28 AM.

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    Nurse when your baby cues, at the earliest cues, as long as baby cues often enough that baby nurses at least 10 times a day. If baby is NOT nursing at least 10 times a day, wake baby to nurse as needed. That is all you need to know about nursing frequency right now. Yes it seems counterintuitive to wake a baby but babies this young WILL SOMETIMES sleep through feedings. Especially if baby is in a crib in another room, swaddled, or using a pacifier. If you are holding baby while baby sleeps, or sleeping in the same room as baby, baby may wake more often naturally.


    I suggest, if your baby cues, nurse first. If baby does not want to nurse, or nurses but is then fussy, THEN try other comfort measures. And then, offer to nurse again.
    This, exactly.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*haleysmum View Post
    [FONT=Georgia]I'm having an interesting night with my LO. She fed at 6pm, again at 9pm and again at 10pm. Would this be called cluster feeding?
    No. This is NORMAL baby feeding. Cluster feeding is where your child is literally on your breast nonstop for 3-6hours at a time and even if they seem like they are sleeping, EVERY TIME you try to unlatch them they wake up and demand to be put back. And FYI this ALSO considered NORMAL.
    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*haleysmum View Post
    Normally she sleeps for maybe 4 or 5 hours before waking to eat and normally that is only because she doesn't like sitting in a wet diaper. She keeps changing things up on me and it's confusing.
    With all due respect mama, your baby isn't even old enough to have established anything close to a routine. And it's NOT normal for a baby this young to sleep this long and shouldn't be allowed. ALSO and this is really really important: NOTHING in terms of sleep is every going to stay the same. So looking for it or trying to cling to it is ALWAYS going to end in frustration. So let it go NOW. Your babies sleep patterns will change AT LEAST every 4-6 weeks. If not sooner. Babies under a year are growing and changing at the speed of light. And ALL OF THAT affect sleep and eating patterns. Don't be confused by it. Accept it. Sleep is ALWAYS going to change. And it's NEVER EVER going to be like it was before she was here. EVER. So don't look to fit the baby into a pattern where you are going to be getting 6-8hours at a time. That isn't going to happen this year.
    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*haleysmum View Post
    When she cries I do the normal routine, too hot/cold, lonely, wet/dirty and then hungry. But what to do if those don't work?
    Feeding should always be the FIRST thing you try. Because if you don't feed a new born right away sometimes they get too upset or too hungry to latch. I would always try to feed a baby first, check their diaper 2nd and THEN worry about the temperature.
    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*haleysmum View Post
    I am confused as to what to do, I want to let her tell me when she is hungry, I don't want to force it on her, if she is sleeping, surely she isn't hungry, if she was, she would wake and let me know....right? However I want to get in the right amount of feeds so she thrives... I can't win o.O
    NO NO NO. Listen you are taking very adult logic and trying to apply it to a teeny tiny baby. It doesn't work. Her stomach is the size of a GRAPE. Your body is setting up your supply RIGHT NOW. And it needs to be qued to make milk by your daughter. The MINIMUM amount of times a newborn should be fed in a 24hour period of time is 10-12times. That is every 2-3 hours. PERIOD. Do the math. With blocks of sleep that are between 5 and 6hours you aren't hitting the minimum in terms of times of feeding. So Not only will your child not get the minimum amount of nutrition but you won't get the minimum amount of ques to make the right amount of milk. That combined with you bottle feeding (Which is a medical intervention in terms of breastfeeding) when not needed is a recipe for disaster. Listen to us! Feed your baby around the clock. Put the pump and bottles away for now. Feed your baby. And if she sleeps for longer than 4 hours ALWAYS FEED HER! You don't even really have to wake her to feed her. MOST newborns will nurse in their sleep. BUT DO NOT GO 4-6 HOURS WITHOUT FEEDING.

    Way too lazy for formula

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    Right but as I stated before I cannot breast feed her that often, it is agony. I use the pump to give my breasts a break until I can see a specialist. No matter what position I try or how many times I take her of and reattach, it is still excruciating. How ever much I would love to and try to, I can't handle the pain that often and for that long.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    That's really rough. Have you been able to see the LC yet? There is no substitute for some good hands-on help.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Scared new mother needs some reassurance...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*haleysmum View Post
    Right but as I stated before I cannot breast feed her that often, it is agony. I use the pump to give my breasts a break until I can see a specialist. No matter what position I try or how many times I take her of and reattach, it is still excruciating. How ever much I would love to and try to, I can't handle the pain that often and for that long.
    Well this sounds like a latch issue. See Dr Jack Newmans video for how to get a correct latch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHs2Ql5Kylo And your baby is only less than a week old. Nipple preference is real and something you should be concerned about. You said you were pumping because it was bothering you not to know how much she is eating. You both need to practice nursing. And ultimately when the latch is correct it won't hurt but it will still need to happen around the clock.

    Way too lazy for formula

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