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Thread: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

  1. #1
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    Jan 2011
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    Default Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    HI Ladies,
    i continue to have issues with daycare and them grossly overfeeding DS. They gave him 3.5oz bottle at 226pm and another 3oz bottle at 258pm. WTH???? apparently he wouldn't calm down, so stuffing an freaking bottle in his face was the only solution. Anyhow, i was wondering if you guys had any solid references/resources that I could take in. I know Kellymom.com has an article on bottle feeding breastfed babies, but I'm not sure if that's a resource my DCP will take seriously. Does anyone have any irrefutable, rock-solid resources I can take in to show them why I'm so insistent that THIS doesn't happen?

    When I called to complain, the manager told me that most babies his age, 5mo, take 6oz at a time. I told her that may be the case for formula fed babies, but not breastfed babies. I told her that breastfed babies typically eat 2-3.... MAYBE 4oz at a time. For a daycare that's been in operation for quite a few years, you'd think they'd have this s*** ironed out. I wonder how many nursing relationships that have personally sabotaged by their outrages feeding behaviors. Anywho.... I appreciate your help.

    BTW- DH and I are currently in a trial run to see if we can afford to stay home with the kiddos. With stuff like this happening, I feel fortunate that we're even able to entertain the idea.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    Hi - I remember reading that Kellymom article and it had links on the bottom w/ good resources. After OH and MIL asked if they should be feeding MORE milk than 2 oz, I showed them this article

    To quote: "Formula-fed babies use the nutrients in formula less efficiently, so they may need more milk to meet their nutritional needs. Formula is also missing hormones, such as leptin and adiponectin, which help babies regulate appetite and energy metabolism."

    And the references at the bottom of the article are all medical journals, studies, and such.

    I would be upset too if LO was fed over 6 oz in less than an hour -- people have no idea what it is to be hooked to a pump and how much work expressing and storing milk is. Take care

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    Thank you!!! I just printed this and plan on taking it in to daycare today. They have no clue and they're treating me as if I'm crazy. That breaks it down very well. Do you know of any resources that discuss the 1-1.5oz per hour intake? I see that all the time here on the forums as a general guideline, but haven't found any resources that specifically state that.

    My son NEVER acts full when eating from a bottle, so I understand them thinking that he needs to eat more... and I did say to feel free to use all of the milk I sent... But I was thinking they'd remember to space them out appropriately, as we'd discussed. I asked them this morning if any other moms send breastmilk to see if anyone else had problems, and I was told that each mother sends at least one bottle of breast milk. All of the other women are probably being told that their babies were needing more milk than they were sending, and therefore they starting supplementing.... Does that make sense?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    I hope you find a solution. Also, if you do decide to stay home, there are so many ways to save money that are really difficult if not impossible to do when you're working full time (like more time to cook meals from scratch and lower your food budget, save on gas and clothing money, and many others).
    Nursed my sweet daughter 3 years, 3 mos.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*alilwest View Post
    Thank you!!! I just printed this and plan on taking it in to daycare today. They have no clue and they're treating me as if I'm crazy. That breaks it down very well. Do you know of any resources that discuss the 1-1.5oz per hour intake? I see that all the time here on the forums as a general guideline, but haven't found any resources that specifically state that.

    My son NEVER acts full when eating from a bottle, so I understand them thinking that he needs to eat more... and I did say to feel free to use all of the milk I sent... But I was thinking they'd remember to space them out appropriately, as we'd discussed. I asked them this morning if any other moms send breastmilk to see if anyone else had problems, and I was told that each mother sends at least one bottle of breast milk. All of the other women are probably being told that their babies were needing more milk than they were sending, and therefore they starting supplementing.... Does that make sense?
    You're right, I remember not finding articles that specifically recommended that hourly intake. The kellymom site (and the calculator links on the site) recommended 25-30 oz for the full day which results in the 1-1.5 oz estimate. Maybe you could present it this way? They should also just listen to what your needs are since you are the client! They obviously need to find other ways of soothing baby besides sticking a bottle in his mouth. I hope it all works for you... best of luck

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    The thinking is changing about even how formula fed infants should be fed (more frequent smaller feeds rather than large scheduled feeds.) I once found a nice article about the benefits of feeding even eff infants on cue, but today I can't find it. But I did find this, which covers some interesting science based reasons why human babies in general are meant to feed on cue. http://www.parentingscience.com/infa...-schedule.html

    But is it really necessary for you to convince the day care? The parent is the customer of the day care, and babies should be fed as the parent direct (as long as that direction is not going to harm the baby.) I find it beyond maddening that the response to your complaint was to tell you how babies 'usually' eat. As if you don’t know how to feed your own baby! How condescending.


    It sounds as if the problem may be, they are throwing a bottle at any fussiness rather than attempting other comfort measures for their own convenience.
    While the kellymom article is excellent, if you are looking to convince a skeptic, articles downloaded from the internet may not be enough. Here is a short, sweet and direct document that, if you like, you can give to your caregiver, with the instruction that you want these guidelines followed in the care (not just the feeding) of your baby. http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfedbaby.pdf This same information is published in book The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding (8th edition-2010) which was written by three eminent IBCLCs and published by La Leche League, an organization that has been recognized for over 50 years as expert in the subject of normal infant feeding.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    Thank you for the resources. I just glanced over the article about the demand feeding... can't wait to dig into that one. And I plan on printing the handout at work on Monday. Thank you!!! When I went in and sat down with the manager on Friday afternoon (a woman who chose to not breastfeed any of her children) she said that everything she found online also stated that babies his age need 4-6oz, but she was shocked that between 1-6 months, overall quantity of intake doesn't increase for breastfed babies. She looked at me like I was crazy when I explained that that's because the composition of the milk changes to meet the growing demands of the baby. I also explained that DS eats between 9-11 times per day, and that overall daily intake is spread over each of those feedings. She is absolutely clueless! I gave her a copy of the article that the PP provided. I told her that breastfed babies need 1-1.5oz per hour of breastmilk. She said that when they feed him, many times he seems unsatisfied and the girls don't want him to starve so they want to offer another bottle. I told her that he may very well act hungry, but that he doesn't need more milk. They won't be letting him go hungry! I explained that he will eat everything that's in the bottle, and that doesn't mean he needs it! I just don't get it. I really don't get it. How are they so ignorant? And, in retrospect, yesterday when I asked the young girl if any of the other moms send breastmilk, she said that each mom sends at least one bottle of breast milk, and she singled out one baby (maybe 6-7 months old) saying, "Oh, and Maile is FINALLY starting formula...." And I'm thinking FINALLY????? More like ALREADY!?!?!? UGH. In the afternoon when I went into his room to pick him up, there was a girl sitting on the ground, holding a paci in DS's mouth. SHe said she couldn't get him to calm down, and I could see tears in his eyelashes so I knew he had been upset. BUT, I picked him up, put him in his carseat, collected the bottles frm the fridge, went and got my daughter from the playground, drove home (15 min drive), got my daughter a snack, put away the milk I had pumped that day, AND used the restroom, and he didn't make a peep once.

    It sucks because I understand that they have other babies htey have to take care of. My DS isn't their only baby, and if he is super needy, i understand that puts them in a tough spot. BUT THAT ISN'T MY PROBLEM!!! That sounds like a resource problem! And, my husband also feels that REGARDLESS of what the other babies get, we will have the final say in how our son is fed. HE feels that it's absolutely ridiculous that we even have to come to some kind of understanding with them regarding this. we are the parents. period. As a compromise, they asked if I wanted them to start feeding him rice cereal, and I explained that rice cereal isn't even really recommended because it has relatively no nutritional value... and cue the puzzled look.

    Anyway, I'm just ranting. It just sucks that they really don't believe me. Again, this is why I think all of their clients end up using formula. No one can keep up with their excessive feeding habits. The father of the little girl who "finally" started getting formula typically picks up his daughter around the same time I pick up DS. I wanted to ask him about why his daughter is getting formula now, but didn't know if that would be out of line. I am curious, though. And, just last night in my obsessive internet searching, I stumbled across a breastfeeding booklet published by the government supporting my claim that BFed babies get approx 3oz per feeding. THank you for all your help. Fingers crossed that I can be a stay at home mom sooner than later.

    On a side note, does anyone else ever wish there were 'Like' buttons on here. I do.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    Will any of the 'girls' be willing to learn to wear your baby in a sling? (Assuming you would feel safe about that?)

    I am not surprised your baby fussed at daycare but then not after you picked him up. Babies are less stressed when they are with their mothers than when at daycare. This is not a judgment this is simply what the research shows.

    As far as how much a baby should be getting overall, remember the 1.5 ounce per hour thing is, as far as I know, an estimate based on the idea that a breastfed baby typically consumes 25-35 ounces of milk at the breast per 24 hour day. If a baby was getting exactly 1.5 ounces every hour all day and night, that would be 36 ounces a day. I suspect it is weighted to the high side of normal because the baby is (presumably) sleeping a bit more and thus nursing a bit less at night, so would consume slightly more during waking hours. But this part is just a guess.

    I point this out because that would mean different breast-milk fed babies really would need different amounts over the course of a day at daycare, depending on how much baby nurses when with mom. Say a day care sticks right with the 1.5 ounce per hour so the baby gets 12 ounces in an 8 hour day at day care, that baby will still need to be getting between 13 and 23 ounces per day when with mom. So if a baby is, for example, starting to take a longer stretch of sleep at night and thus nursing less frequently when at home, they may indeed need more while at daycare, to get the appropriate amount overall.

    Also while 2 ounces would be a normal intake for a single breastfeeding session, so would 4 ounces at this age. It just depends on the baby and it will typically vary. There are lots of things that 'vary' when we are talking breastfed/cue fed rather than formula fed/schedule fed babies. (Which is probably why day cares, with many babies to feed and care for, struggle with this stuff so much.)

    Anyway, that is why the point of cue based and 'paced' bottle feeding is to 'watch the baby, not the clock'- nor the measurements on the side of the bottle-to make it more like breastfeeding and allow baby to have more control over intake, not necessarily to limit or lessen what baby takes per session or how many bottles baby gets...although that would be the result, if baby was being overfed before. I hope I am making sense...?

    Do you bring the bottles to day care already prepared?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*alilwest View Post
    my husband also feels that REGARDLESS of what the other babies get, we will have the final say in how our son is fed. HE feels that it's absolutely ridiculous that we even have to come to some kind of understanding with them regarding this. we are the parents. period.
    i think your DH is 100% spot on. there really shouldn't be a debate about how you want your baby fed. i feel like you should be able to give them instructions (written if needed) and feel confident they will carry out feedings according to your wishes. that's what you're paying them for! i would be really mad too.

    i know for me, it's sometimes hard for me to set firm boundaries with the DCP, because i know they are taking care of my baby all day and i am grateful for that, but i have to remind myself too that it's a business relationship and a competitive market for them. if i were in your shoes i might just get a bit tougher and firmer in my directions and communications to the DCP ... and possibly research other providers to have backup options.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Good resources for bottle feeding breastfed babies

    I do prepare the bottles at home. I typically put the milk from one pumping session in each bottle, typically between 3-3.5oz. So, I send 4 bottles that have 3-3.5oz and another with 1-2oz. I typically pump the 1-2oz after our morning nursing session. When we were supplementing DS when he was brand new, he never acted full or seemed satisfied. Even after 6oz. Because of this, I put the limits on the quantity... He literally won't stop on his own, and then he vomits everywhere. A lot. Not a normal amount. So, I guess I don't have faith in just trusting him to stop when hes done, and i don't want to give him too much more than what he would get from me if we were together. What do you suggest?

    For instance, tomorrow I'm sending five bottles: 2.5oz, 3oz, 3.5oz, 4oz, and a 2oz top off bottle. Is it advisable for me to tell them to not exceed 4oz at any one time? I'm trying to walk the fine line of DS getting enough while not over feeding. He still wakes up at night to eat, though these last few nights he has been taking longer stretches... So I hear you about him consuming more during the day.
    Last edited by @llli*alilwest; January 15th, 2013 at 12:50 AM.

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