Desperate! Need help with newborn!

[@llli*auderey]

It just wasn't working so I decided to allow him to find his own routine and to have breast available for however long it took.

YES!! yay mama! schedules are the enemy of breastfeeding. this is very promising.

Colic: every evening between 8-10pm he cries as if he's pains and sometimes goes absolutely hysterical.

this does not sound like colic to me, just normal baby behavior.

I was told to not feed unless 2hrs has passed as it can upset him if he doesn't get enough time to digest between feeds.

NO NO NO. baby should feed on demand. breastmilk digests very fast. it is entirely possible that your baby really is HUNGRY in the evenings and that's why he's crying; it's a very normal pattern for babies to cluster feed all evening long.

Should I allow him to continue to find his own rhythm for night feeds?

YES. feed on demand all night at this age.

keep on doing what you did yesterday - this is moving in the right direction! demand feeding, quit the pump and supplements for now. good job!

edited to add: you mentioned something about "however long it took" - do not limit time at the breast. maybe someone told you a feed should be 15 mins per side or something crazy like that; it is VERY NORMAL for a baby to nurse 45 mins or even more on one side at this age. they are just not efficient yet. let the baby "finish the first breast first" - however long it takes - and then offer the other.

[@llli*mumofthree123]

thanks. it does really feel as if we're on the right path at last. brings huge relief as had visions of having to end bf'ing. thank you so much for all the support. it's great to have my instinct backed up.
questions: i pumped yesterday after he was finished my right breast and 20mls was left. is this ok? i so want him to get the rich hindmilk. he only manages to drink from one breast at a time - is this ok for now? when do they start drinking from both? (you'd never guess i bf my first for 14mths!) i don't normally pump the breast used for a feed. i let him empty it.
he seems less prone to fall asleep when i pump on the other side as he feeds, as it flows easily and i guess he doesn't have to work so hard at it. is it ok to do this until he shows he's more able?
he does still fall asleep at the breast, but is more actively feeding. should i prevent him from sleeping altogether? i've the school run starting next week and worry about having less time.

is it ok if he only wakes once per night?

[@llli*auderey]

some thoughts about your questions:
- you don't need to pump after you feed. but if you do, it doesn't really matter at this point how much you get. 20mls (~1oz) is fine, and normal, after a feed.
- milk is all milk. there really is no such thing as foremilk/hindmilk; it transitions slowly through the feed. basically what happens is your milk separates, just like nonhomogenized cow's milk in the fridge. the fats cling to the milk ducts, so at the beginning of a nursing or pumping, the milk that comes out has less fat. as the milk comes out, it mixes, so the milk gets fattier. the more often you feed, the less time the milk has to separate, and the less difference there is between "fore" and "hind". so basically - don't worry about it.
- 1 breast is fine. as baby gets more efficient, and grows more, he might indicate he wants the other breast too. lots of moms see this happen around 8-9 months but there is LOTS of variation here. it's ok if he takes a full feed on one side and then just a nibble on the other; it's also ok if he takes "four" sides (first, second, back to the first, back to the second) - that's often what growth spurts feel like.
- pumping as he feeds does the same thing as breast compressions - stimulates a better letdown - so it makes sense that this works for you. absolutely keep doing it, if you can juggle all that at once!
- you can keep pestering him to keep him awake at the boob, but really, if you're worried about time, i recommend getting a carrier so that you can nurse while helping your other child get ready for school. people love ring slings and ergos for nursing; i used my mei tai about 6 hours a day until after 6 months (and i didn't have another kid!)
- at 2 weeks, with the feeding problems you've been having, i wouldn't let him sleep more than 5 hours in a stretch.

[@llli*lllmeg]

^
it sounds like you have really turned the corner. Keep going, even if you hit another snag-these early weeks time is the learning curve for mamma and baby. Even experienced moms like you need to learn each new baby. That is one reason why we say every baby is a new beginning! Have patience with yourself and baby.

it sounds as if maybe some of the things you were told to do-like sceduling or delaying feeds-or are worrying about needlessly, like milk fat content, caused or exacerbated your difficulties. I suggest the book The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding 8th edition, 2010, this website, this forum, LLL Leaders, and kellymom.com as your go to sources if info. Those sources of info are pretty much all you need for typical breastfeeding issues. no one is perfect or right everytime, but these are generally good sources of evidence based information about breastfeeding.

I also have a baby with that once a day or so colicky 'time.' The only releif I get is if she nurses! The idea of trying to handle colicky wailing baby without trying your best and easiest comforting tool just makes me sad. Babies nurse for comfort as well as nutrition.

he does still fall asleep at the breast, but is more actively feeding. should i prevent him from sleeping altogether? i've the school run starting next week and worry about having less time.

I am not sure what you mean-of course he needs to sleep-but you will need to nurse more often overall to get that weight back up and keep milk supply where it needs to be. An infant this age cannot get enough nursing only 8 times a 24 hour day (typically.)

I get the time concern. I have a new baby and two school age kids who go to school 20 minutes away who are also in daily extracurricular sports and activities-right now my husband is taking paternity leave but when he goes back to work in a couple weeks it's going to be major hair-pulling time.

Of course getting your older kids to school on time is important but what's a few tardies compared to your sanity and your infants lifelong health. Can anyone else help out with getting your kids ready for school or driving until you get in a rhythm?

[@llli*mumofthree123]

sadly have another setback - he's lost weight again 3kg310 which means he's lost 80g. and today he suckles but doesn't swallow that much - the bib is soaked, even with my milk in his mouth he doesn't swallow! what can i do? i'm getting really desperate - my DH wants to switch to bottles.
all i can think of is to reduce comfort feeding so when he comes onto breast he knows its for eating. i've had him on me most of today and am really getting frustrated because he automatically seems to shut down at breast and with syringe he's totally awake and crying for feeding. HELP!

[@llli*auderey]

Mama, you need to see a lactation consultant (preferably an IBCLC) TODAY. something is going on with your baby's latch and he needs to eat. Ask your midwife, ask your local LLL leader, or look here http://americas.iblce.org/find-an-ibclc.

[@llli*lllmeg]

with Auderey.
why is the bib soaked? Because the milk is spraying out of your breast and baby cannot handle it all, or it is dribbling out of your babies mouth because he is not swallowing? Or both? Do you have forceful letdown? Could he not be swallowing at the breast vs the syringe because he is getting too much at once at the breast-too much to know what to do with?

as far as

all i can think of is to reduce comfort feeding so when he comes onto breast he knows its for eating. i've had him on me most of today and am really getting frustrated because he automatically seems to shut down at breast and with syringe he's totally awake and crying for feeding. HELP!

Huh. I don't know. I am pretty sure an infant cannot differentiate something like that. You know? He does not think "now I nurse for and swallow correctly because I am hungry," and "Now I will nurse ineffectively and let it all dribble out because it’s just for comfort." Breastfeeding is instinctual, and the instinctual response is to suck, swallow, breathe-in a pattern. (Not all babies can do this, and that is when interventions are needed.) As long as baby is capable of sucking & swallowing and there is milk, then comfort nursing also transfers milk, just not as rapidly or effectively because its slower and more relaxed-but its still sucking and swallowing.

Before you reported that your baby slept too much and/or was not eating frequently enough, which would of course lead to poor gain or even loss of weight no matter how good the suck is. Limiting feeds seems like the wrong approach for a baby who is having weight gain issues and, if anything, needs to relearn/get more practiced at efficient breastfeeding. Suck training may be helpful-but you need to see someone who can assess what the issues are.

If bottles are what you need to do to temporarily get baby eating enough-if the syringe is no longer working for you-then that is what you need to do. It does not mean breastfeeding is over-but again, breastfeeding needs to be assessed by someone so you can figure out what is wrong-there is SOME, likely fixable, reason your baby is not getting enough milk at the breast.

[@llli*mumofthree123]

dribbling out of his mouth.

I phoned a LLL and she's coming tomorrow with a SNS (YAY!) and will also be contacting an osteopath as his birth was within a few mins so there could be trauma.

I'm currently thinking that he's to save his energy so will restrict his feeding to a half hour and give supplement. He's sleeping far more today too and his temp is down. Woried!

[@llli*auderey]

so glad someone's coming tomorrow. let us know how it goes! and by all means supplement tonight.

[@llli*mumofthree123]

he put on 120g overnight!
LLL woman was a great help - turns out his tongue didnt come out enough. she also advised us to bring him to an osteopath as he was born suddenly within a few minutes, into my husbands hands at home.
saw osteo tonight and ever since he's feeding at both breasts non-stop and doing it perfectly! osteo found some compression at the base of his skull and in his tummy. another appt in a few wks time. i still can't believe it!