Latch Problems: Not putting tongue over gums

[@llli*briplusamie]

We've had latch problems since day one. Anyways, my DD is now seven weeks old. We just recently, after seeing three ENTs, got it confirmed that she does have a posterior tongue tie. However, nobody is willing to correct it "just" for breastfeeding since it's all the way in the back and "hidden" and they won't do it without putting her under general anesthesia. She's gaining weight, but very slowly, and I believe the only reason is because I literally nurse her constantly. Every waking moment, she is latched on, or popped off and trying to latch on, or drifting off and I'll try to put her down and she wakes back up rooting. I'm worried it will affect my supply when it actually regulates and then I won't be able to EBF her.

Anyways, I've seen multiple lactation counselors but none have been able to help. She started out making clicking noises and has now moved on to making loud sucking noises while latched. She rarely ever swallows. I can't afford to see an IBCLC. Anyways, I've just noticed that, when I try to latch her, she holds her tongue back behind her gums. She can stick her tongue out over her bottom lip and hold it while her mouth is open so I know she is capable of it even with the tongue tie. When I wait to latch her, she sort of licks over her gums but pulls it back to fast for me to latch her with it over them. When she's latched, I can feel her licking.

Also, I feel no suction at all. I know she does suck because I can definitely feel it when she latches onto the wrong place but it breaks before she's done with one suck (and then I get the loud noise.)

Any tips for correcting this? I've heard of suck training with a finger but she refuses to suck on a finger and I'm not really sure what to do exactly. She chews and then tries to push it out and then starts crying. Any tips on getting her to take a finger?

TIA.

[@llli*mommal]

I would at least call some IBCLCs and ask a) if they will help you for a reduced or spread-out fee (many LCs and IBCLCs will do this because most of them get into the business only because they like helping moms and babies) and b) if they can refer you to an ENT or pediatrician or other doc who is willing to correct a tongue tie. I've never heard of putting a baby under general anaesthesia for a tongue tie- usually it's an outpatient procedure performed with a little local anaesthetic.

Even if you can't find a friendly doc to help you with this, I wouldn't lose hope. This is the sort of problem that often self-corrects if you're just persistent and wait for the baby to grow. And if you run into supply problems, those are fixable. If your baby is having issues with very slow growth, I might consider doing some things to boost supply right now- things like eating oatmeal and taking fenugreek, and best of all, pumping with a high-quality pump in addition to nursing. I know that's going to be tough considering that your baby is nursing all. the. time., but when it comes to increasing supply nothing beats increased stimulation to and milk removal from the breast.

[@llli*joe.s.mom]

Some very deep tongue ties do require putting the baby under, but several ENTs in this area are willing to do them for breastfeeding reasons, so I know that doctors will cut even those. I agree, if you can get another opinion, that would be great! Have they cut it at all? For my baby, they did a out-patient snip, and then warned me there was still a tie, and if it was still a problem a further procedure might be necessary. But at least I got the one snip done.

I also agree that IBCLC help could really be invaluable here. With tongue tied babies, positioning can really make a difference as far as their milk removal and can help you stay comfortable enough while their mouths grow. Many will see women on a sliding scale, and if not, remember, formula is not cheap either! That investment can really pay off.

And I agree with all of Mommal's suggestions as far as keeping your supply up. If you can squeeze in a pumping session or two, even that could make a big difference in the long run.

[@llli*romeroke]

You should post in what area you live so you could get some referral of other ENT's or even peds that will fix tongue tie with a laser. My sis just had this done for her LO and it made all the difference (posted the story on another thread).
An IBCLC usually brings a scale and does pre and posts weight so she could help you figure out how your infant is best able to tranfer milk.

[@llli*briplusamie]

I'm in central Louisiana. I'll be calling a local IBCLC on Monday to see if we can work something out.

I do try to pump when I can.. I tried while she's nursing but she likes to kick it.

ETA - They haven't cut it any. The first two told me she isn't TT'd but everything I'd read about it convinced me otherwise. She also has a lip tie that goes over her gums and attaches behind on her palate and has a bit of a high palate and I've heard both are almost always present with TT. Only the last one said that she is tied but said he won't do anything and it's not affecting breastfeeding (ik it is.) There are only two ENTs in the area that see infants that I haven't seen and they are both in one of the offices I've already been to. I also got her in with a pediatric dentist who made it sound like she would do something over the phone. She said her tongue feels tight and referred us to an ENT.

So I've pretty much given up on finding somebody who will fix it in the area and was more looking into teaching her to use her tongue better even if we can't get a perfect latch. She's started sticking her tongue out further in the last week and I've been working on getting her to move it around more.

[@llli*briplusamie]

Furthest she would stick it out at 5 weeks -
http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...14793624_n.jpg

Now at 7 weeks -
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...29892627_n.jpg

She just won't put it over her gums when opening her mouth to latch.

[@llli*mommal]

OMG, who in the world could mistake that very obvious heart-shaped divot in the center of her tongue? That's classic tongue tie!

ETA: she's a cutie-pie! Post too many pics like that and I'll end up desperate for a 3rd kid...

[@llli*joe.s.mom]

Super cute!

I agree, that looks like a pretty pronounced tongue tie to me!! My baby's tongue tie was less pronounced than that, and I still found an ENT to clip it!!! Are there any other ENTs you can talk to??? Or a pediatric dentist maybe?

My baby also has the lip tie. The issue with that is whether the baby can flange the upper lip out enough to get a decent latch. Apparently most ENTs won't touch them, but pediatric dentists can laser them.

I'm sorry this has been so difficult. I don't feel like you're getting straight answers here! I hope you'll keep looking and fighting here, because your baby's tongue tie looks pretty tight. Having it clipped, even just partway, might really make a difference for you.

[@llli*briplusamie]

She's blushing over here!

I'm going to see the LC at 2:00 so hopefully I'll get some good tips, a professional opinion that it is affecting breastfeeding, and maybe she'll even know a doctor in the area who will snip without GA (because I don't feel comfortable putting a two month old under, especially when I know it isn't necessary.)

[@llli*briplusamie]

Saw the LC. She doesn't think her TT is tight enough to cause the problem, at least not now that her mouth has grown more. She said she is moving her tongue wrong and that we may need to go see a therapist for exercises, but went and grabbed a nipple shield last minute just to see what would happen (I tried one before and it didn't help.) Well, she latched much more effectively and actually swallowed for about 10 minutes straight! She's never done that.. she usually swallows for a minute or so, then suckles for a good 10-15 minutes with no swallowing, then swallows for a minute and so on. LC suggested that I use the shield for a week and that it might correct the problem without any other help.

Well, she woke up to nurse and decided she wouldn't take it, so I offered the breast and she's practically noiseless. Still losing suction every now and then but so much less. Maybe she's just tired but I'm pretty excited