I think I've lost the battle!!

[@llli*kadyns.mom]

I have a low supply of milk. My daugher wasn't having enough poopy/wet diapers and wasn't gaining proper weight. I was taking fenugreek and it seemed to boost my supply, but it made me and her both terrible sick and diarrhea so I had to stop. She used to suck at the breast for at least 10-15 minutes and stay there...even if she wasn't swallowing milk. She has always had a bad latch...I have some physical deformed nipples and so it makes it hard for her to latch correctly. The LC says that she probably could latch effectively when she got bigger and stronger. She gets frustrated and won't latch at all now and when she does latch she sucks for just a few seconds and gets ticked. I can get her to stay on long enough for the milk to let down, but she will suck/swallow for about 30 seconds and then get angry and pull off and won't latch again. I've tried switch feeding...which I've had to do from the start...and she won't latch at all. Pulling head back, screaming, pushing at breast with her hands.

I've been pumping after every nursing session. Right now, because I have three other kids, this is all I can do. I tried pumping every hour and when she woke up to eat there wasn't any milk available to her and she wouldn't latch. She'd just get angry. I couldn't keep her on the breast. She is a totally different baby when she gets fed and is full. When I'm giving her the breast and switch feeding she will scream and cry and be fussy and angry for hours on end at the breast. By the end of it I'm crying and she is crying and we end up having to supplement anyhow.

I want nursing to be a pleasurable experience for me and her and it just isn't. It is a fight. She is angry and I'm upset and by the time she gets fed enough to be content we start all over again in 30 minutes. I honestly feel bad about this, but I HATE when she wakes up because I realize I have to go through circus hoops/fights to get her to nurse and be content.

I'm not sure what else to do. Pumping, nursing, so frequently has my nipples so sore and the lack of sleep is really taking its toll. I know breast milk is best, but what does a mom do when she isn't making enough and baby won't nurse?

Just really frustrated.

[@llli*still.here]

s Sounds like you're having a rough time. If you answer a few questions we might be able to help you better.

How old is your baby?
When you were only nursing how many wet/poopy diapers were you getting?
Can you give us an idea of baby's weight history?
How much would you say she's currently eating formula vs breastmilk?

[@llli*esthervegan]

Were you able to nurse your other children?
I attended a lactation seminar two years ago and the instructor spoke about
the physical difficulties associated with trying to nurse after suppressing lactation for previous births.
a mother's first duty is to protect the health and well being of her children,
clearly, any choice you make concerning how and what you feed your infant falls within that category.
What does a mom do when she is not making enough milk and her baby won't nurse? She feeds her baby.
A baby can not be "tough loved" into latching and suckling effectively. And so many moms do both, they offer supplemental feeds as well as offer the breast.
It is not an all or none proposition.

[@llli*worknpump]

Can I ask about your pumping output? I realize that pumping output doesn't equate to what baby is getting at the breast, but if you were to pump in place of a feed, about how much would you pump (total - both breasts)? Just curious...

[@llli*kadyns.mom]

Let's see if I can answer everyone's questions.

My baby is 3 weeks old tomorrow.
When I was only nursing she didn't poop for over 48 hours and she only had 2 wet diapers a day. Those increased to about 4 wets diapers a day and maybe 1-2 poopy after I started taking Fenugreek.
Baby was born at 8lbs 8oz and weighed 7lbs 14oz at her 3 day check up. I took her to a lactation consultant when she was 6 days old and she weighed 8lbs...those were different scales though. I took her to the doctor at 16 days old and she weighed 8lbs 4oz. I had been supplementing a bit though at that point. Not all breastfeeding at the 2 week check.
Right now I feed her the breast and then wait. If she acts hungry still I attempt to feed at the breast again. If she won't take it then I supplement. I start with 1 oz and see how she reacts. If she is still crying and acting hungry I offer the breast again. Usually she wont' take the breast. So I end up giving another ounce of formula. It used to be that 2ounces would satisfy her, but she is now taking 3 ounces of formula after almost EVERY nursing session. She eats about every 21/2 hours. I do pump after I feed her for 15 minutes and I give her anything I pump if she is still acting hungry before I give formula.

I was able to nurse my first two. Made TONS of milk. My third child my nipples formed HUGE montgomery tubercles that look like huge wart like bumps around my nipples. My nipples are HUGE because of them. I also did not make ANY milk with my third child. She did not even poop or pee for 3 days after birth until I gave her formula...not even meconium or any output until I gave her bottle. I took Reglan with my third, but it didn't help increase milk and made me and baby jittery. Had to quit. So I didn't get to nurse my 3rd baby at all. The montgomery tubercles have stayed for four years now until this baby was born. My midwife says they will never go away.
I do offer my breast first, but I belive my supply is slowly dwindling because she isn't latching very effectively and doesn't want to nurse very long.

I haven't pumped when she hasn't nursed...except once and it was an hour after she nursed and I got .75oz. Usually after she eats I pump and get anywhere from 1/4 to 1.5oz. I've never gotten more than that and usually my pumping output is on the lower end. She is eating at least 3oz per feed right now and the LC said at this age they can take up to 4oz at a feed. So I wouldn't be able to pump and feed her my milk exclusively. I would have to pump every 2 hours or more and right now with three other kids, moving to another state, and just personal stuff I don't think I can pump that much.

[@llli*caledonia]

Sorry you're having such a hard time this time round.

With my first I had a hard time bfing due to not making enough so I feel you pain! I took it really hard when I had to go half and half breast milk/formula (felt like I was a bad Mum and letting my DS down somehow!). Now I realise that it doesn't matter (even although we all know breast milk is so much better) as the one major thing you MUST keep talling yourself is that if your LO is feeding well - be it by breast or bottle - and is in good health that's the only thing that matters. It's much better being a happy Mummy who bottle feeds than an exhausted, resentful one who is 'fighting a battle' to bf. I am lucky this time round with my DD that the bfing experience is much easier - it should no way be a battle.

I really hope you can find some solution that'll be good for you and your LO. x

[@llli*worknpump]

kaydns.mom - it really sounds to me like you are trying your hardest and I really admire you. As PP said, your baby needs a happy Mom. You know what is best for you and your family. Many mamas here often remind others that ANY breast milk is better than none - it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Just keep that in mind. You're a good Mom.

[@llli*kadyns.mom]

Thanks everyone for the encouragement. My supply seems to be increasing a bit since I've been pumping and baby is staying latched a bit better. I think now I may have thrush!! UGH!! My nipples are sore and burn. They don't really hurt while she is feeding, but they burn all the time afterward and sometimes itch. Sometimes my LO will accidently hit my nipple with her hand when she is trying to latch and it is terrible pain. To take a shower and have the water hit my nipples is painful. How do I know if I have thrush for sure? If I have thrush I may throw in the towel with nursing. Reading about boiling pacifiers, bottle nipples, pump parts, washing clothes with bleach, putting cream on my nipples as well as treating baby's mouth, etc. all seems like a lot of work and craziness!!

Not sure if it is normal or not, but my nipples are also turning purple like a bruise when I pump. Is that normal? It doesn't hurt when I'm pumping and I'm using the lowest amount of suction on my Medela Pump in Style pump.

Just when I think I may be able to successfully BF more problems happen. UGH!

[@llli*maddieb]

check sizing on breast shells. Medela should have info on how.

It is very hard to accurately diagnose thrush. I suggest the Jack Newman thrush protocol as a starting point for possible treatment.

[@llli*mommal]

That doesn't necessarily sound like thrush. It sounds like vasospasm: http://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/moth...ple-blanching/. Note that vasospasm lain is similar to and often mistaken for thrush, but unlike thrush it can cause a purple or bruise-like color to appear on the nipple. Try changing the size of your shield, and if you haven't done this already, have someone who really knows tongue ties take a look in your baby's mouth. Tongue tie can cause difficulties with latching and with milk transfer, and compression from a poor latch can cause pain and vasospasms.