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Thread: Shallow latch and no support

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    5,608

    Default Re: Shallow latch and no support

    But does nursing still hurt? That is my biggest concern....

    Jack Newman has some videos of what he calls "good drinking." You can check those out, but remember all babies are different. http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...id=6&Itemid=13

    But I hesitate to have a mom decide her baby is not getting enough based entirely on her perception of the babies suckle and behavior. Swallows at this age can be very subtle and quiet. Many babies at this age nurse for 45 minutes or more, and/or appear "unsatisfied" after nursing. Many will take any supplements if offered, needed or not. Many will comfort nurse as part (or most) of a nursing session. The active suck/swallowing portion is only part of a normal feeding, typically it may come and go during a feeding as a mom may letdown more than once (and many moms never feel any letdown.) Behavior and what mom can observe at the breast are certainly clues, they can be important, but they often do not tell the whole story.

    If baby is gaining at the breast and pooping enough at the breast, then baby is getting enough at the breast. If not, then baby is not, and in that case the ‘best’ first thing to do would be to have breastfeeding assessed by a lactation consultant and nurse more often if possible. Instead, what is usually done is baby is immediately put on supplemental feedings. If baby is being supplemented (with anything but particularly with formula) that will throw a whole other dimension into what is going on that will potentially mess with a baby’s normal cues, feeding patterns, sleep patterns, and a moms milk supply and her confidence.

    This does not mean to not supplement if baby needs it! But be sure baby needs it and how much (generally) is really needed. (And just because baby needed supplements last week does not mean baby needs them this week.) Be aware of how supplementing will change normal nursing behavior. It is important to be proactive about weaning off supplements when it is time, because otherwise, many moms find themselves falling down the more and more supplementation/less and less nursing at the breast rabbit hole.

    In your first post, you asked:
    Have I ruined everything by giving her formula to quieten her and get some rest? I have been to see a LC and she seems to think we will be ok but,
    So I ask, what did the LC see that told her all was ok? Did she think baby was having difficulty transferring milk? And if so, what were her recommendations? And supplementing because baby needs supplements on a nutritional level is very different than giving supplements to quiet baby and get rest. I understand the impulse for the latter, but only the former would be considered necessary supplementing.

    I would add to mommals suggestions breast compressions. http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...tion&Itemid=17

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: Shallow latch and no support

    The LC was encouraged that she had gained 9 oz of her initial 14 oz weight loss back. She was concerned that my nipples were creased and that I was with her for over an hour and could not get baby to actively suck much during that time. This is what prompted her to refer me to an ENT for PTT.

    She is pooping about once per day. No supplements today as of yet! She's cried a lot but, maybe that's just her getting settled.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: Shallow latch and no support

    Oh and yes, nursing still hurts a bit (discomfort is a better word) but, it's mostly when she first latches.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    5,608

    Default Re: Shallow latch and no support

    OK, was that weight gain prior to supplements being given or after? Just FYI, average weight gain at this age is approximately 1 ounce per day.

    See what the ENT says, and if the issue is not tt, maybe see the LC again to be certain all is well if the plan is to wean off the supplements. At this age the poop-o-meter would typically show at least 3-4 poops about the size of a US Quarter (or larger) in 24 hours, but if weight gain is fine then that is the best indicator all is well. Discomfort at the start of a nursing session is an improvement over what you were experiencing previously, right? So that sounds like good progress and a burning, painful sensation at the very start of a session can be kind of typical in the early weeks. BUT, hopefully this will keep improving because nursing should not even be uncomfortable going forward. Nursing through pain makes these intense early days so much harder.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    36

    Default Re: Shallow latch and no support

    The weight gain is after supplementing 2-4 oz of formula every 24 hours. Usually at nighttime. Still no formula today and she is sleeping soundly. We just had a good nursing session. Definitely want to get weight checked again soon so that I can feel at peace with no supplements. She hasn't pooped today yet but lots of pee. Shew. Stressful! Thanks again for all your support.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    5,608

    Default Re: Shallow latch and no support

    OK so you were not supplementing all that much. That is good, weaning off should thus be relatively simple. But definitely keep an eye on the weight gain/poops. Occasionally a baby this age will gain fine without much poop, which is why accurately done (on the same scale) weight checks are so important if there is any question. Also I have heard of formula stopping a baby up a bit. But typically your want to see poops, not only pees, in at least the first 6 weeks to indicate all is well. Also make sure baby is nursing a minimum of 10-12 times per 24 hours.

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