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Thread: so sad...

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    9,280

    Default Re: so sad...

    I had two high needs babies. Nursed round the clock for over a year. There is no "normal" when it comes to babies. Just when you think you have them figured out they throw you a curve ball. How old are your older children? It is challenging to juggle a newborn + siblings. What sort of support do you have available to you in the form of family and friends that can help out?
    Lyn
    Nursing the girl with kaleidoscope eyes


    Mama to Daniel (12/3/06) and Lucy Jane (8/28/08)

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    25

    Default Re: so sad...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    So, baby was gaining appropriately when you were nursing? If so, he was getting enough milk. If not, he was not, which would explain him being desperate to nurse. Even if you had good supply, a milk transfer issue would prevent baby from getting enough. But I see you say weight gain was good.

    Did you have forceful aka overactive letdown maybe? I see one doctor suspected a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance, which is caused by forceful letdown, and indeed is linked to normal or faster than normal weight gain. If that is severe enough it can cause gastrointestinal issues, and in that case, bottle feeing would appear to “cure" the problem-no more breast, no more forceful letdown. Unfortunately, your doctor telling you to hold off on nursing so your baby gets more hindmilk is exactly the wrong thing to do, this actually makes the "imbalance" and other effects of forceful letdown worse. But there ARE lots of ways to fix ffld and continue to nurse.

    Also some babies are super fussy and needy in the early weeks and calm down later. It is possible you baby calming down coincided with your decision to stop nursing at the breast, but was not caused by it.

    If you are happier now and baby is happier now, I am not going to argue with success. You know your baby best, and of course it is entirely your choice to stop nursing if it was not working for either of you. I understand you are sad, and if you want to nurse again, it woudl make sense to try. If the issue was indeed forceful letdwon, that will be helped if your supply is lower now. If the issue was baby needed t omature a bit, that will have ahppened as well. You can always encourage your baby to nurse again, work on rebuilding your supply, and if the issues start again, stop again.

    But since these forums are visited by lots of mothers who are struggling in the intense early days, I have to point something out. I am sorry but an infant cannot be "addicted" to breastfeeding. He can not be “obsessed” with it. Addiction & obsession implies an unhealthy attachment to something, usually something that is itself not healthy. ALL healthy newborns are born with a strong, powerful, instinctual need to suckle at the breast, because their survival depends on it. This need does not go away because you have to go somewhere in the car, or when you need to attend to your other children, or have other responsibilities, or even when you sleep. They are infants and all they know is their instinctual need. In many cases, this can mean a baby is going to be nursing pretty much around the clock for at least the first 6-8 weeks, some babies will nurse way more than others, and this is normal. As far as an infant getting behind on milestones due to nursing-I do not see how that is posssible. Human beings have nursed thier children for-well, for the entire history of the human race. All mammals nurse thier babies. Nature designed this perfect system that allows a baby to get all the stimulation he needs-mostly, while nursing. (Again, a baby who is not able to get enough at the breast may get behind in lots of things, of course, as such a baby is going to be malnourished. Also, if a baby is in intense discomfort that would make baby appear distracted and unhappy) Of course it is tiring, frustrating, and the rest. I suspect your baby was uncomfortable due to forceful letdown and /or baby is one of those extreme high need babies.
    Yes he is gaining enough weight. I don't know whether I had a forceful letdown. How would I be able to tell whether I did or not? You mentioned a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance caused by a forceful letdown, how do I know whether that is the problem and how do I go about fixing it?

    Thank you for your help and understanding. And sorry for the words that I used when trying to describe what I was going through. That is just how I felt while going through all of it.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Default Re: so sad...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*happylilbabygirl View Post
    Thank you. Do you have any suggestions?
    There's a lot of personal preference (on the part of both mama and baby); so the best advice I can give is to contact a local baby wearing group to see if they have a lending library or bring your baby to a well stocked baby store to try some on. Here is some useful information on different types of carriers that might help you choose something.

    I personally love my Ergo. I still nurse my 19 month old in it on occasion. Some mamas have difficulty nursing in it though; so it's something you should probably try on first. I loved my ring sling when my baby was tiny, but he started getting a little heavy for it around 4 months. However, I'm quite small so that may have been the problem - I see lots of mamas toting toddlers in them around here. I hated my Moby, but lots of mamas love them so it's something to consider. I might look for a wrap made out of a woven fabric rather than the stretchy cotton though. Woven fabric is much cooler and can be used for a wider variety of carries (e.g. back carry).

    I honestly think the with the right kind of sling, wrap, or carrier, nursing will be your easiest option by far (no pumping, no bottles, no dishes! ). If you find something that you can nurse in comfortably, then you can let your baby nurse constantly (been there ), and still have hands free to go chasing after your other children.
    K. Sophia - Mama to my little lactivore, the amazing Mr. X (11/10).

  4. #24
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    Jun 2012
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    Default Re: so sad...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*danlynclark View Post
    I had two high needs babies. Nursed round the clock for over a year. There is no "normal" when it comes to babies. Just when you think you have them figured out they throw you a curve ball. How old are your older children? It is challenging to juggle a newborn + siblings. What sort of support do you have available to you in the form of family and friends that can help out?
    My other children are 15, 9, and 7. The 15 year old is autistic but he tries to help out as much as he can. Other than that, I don't have anyone to help me. It's just me and the kids.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: so sad...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*happylilbabygirl View Post
    I don't know whether I had a forceful letdown. How would I be able to tell whether I did or not?
    Often a baby will cough, choke, click, and/or sputter at the breast when there is a forceful letdown. I would spray milk halfway across the room, but not all forceful letdown comes replete with spraying. Also babies tend to be excessively gassy and sometimes spit up a lot when there is a forceful letdown. My fire hose of a letdown made my baby pretty miserable for a spell.

    You mentioned a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance caused by a forceful letdown, how do I know whether that is the problem and how do I go about fixing it?
    A reduction in supply can help if there is corresponding oversupply. But you've seen a drop in supply and it sounds like there is still a lot of fussiness associated with breastfeeding, right? Forceful letdown can occur independently from oversupply, so there are still some things you can do. Nursing reclined is what save my nursing relationship. Literally saved it. I would lean back on a few pillows, put my baby on my chest or stomach, and let my son latch. It can take a lot of adjustments in positioning to find something that works for you, so give it some practice even if it doesn't seem to work at first. Keep nursing very frequently. Frequent emptying of the breast helps. The really good news is that babies will grow into a forceful letdown. I sprayed for 15 months, but my baby was able to cope with it just fine once he was several months old.

    I also had to really work on the gas with him. I had to give a tummy massage then bicycle his legs between every feeding to work out the gas incrementally. A warm bath every evening followed by more leg bicycling also helped. It's tough, but they really do grow out of it as they get older. Mine started giggling whenever he passed gas starting around 6 months. Much nicer than the screaming that preceded.
    K. Sophia - Mama to my little lactivore, the amazing Mr. X (11/10).

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    1,500

    Default Re: so sad...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*happylilbabygirl View Post
    My other children are 15, 9, and 7. The 15 year old is autistic but he tries to help out as much as he can. Other than that, I don't have anyone to help me. It's just me and the kids.
    9 and 7 years old is certainly old enough to help out with household chores. Put those kids to work, Mama! Even my five-year-old has his job of picking up all the toys scattered around the house and putting them away in the kids' bedroom and my toddler "helps."
    ~Sylvia~

    Wife to Nick, m. May 2005

    Mommy to Gabriel (b. January 2007, 8lbs. 15oz.), nursed 18 months.

    Isaac (b. August 2009, 9lbs. 1oz- naturally), nursed 22 months, through PPD/PPA and emergency gallbladder surgery.

    and Corban (b. March 2012, 11lbs. 6Oz.- naturally in the water), my NICU baby, still nursing strong at age 2!


    Daughter of God

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: so sad...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*phi View Post
    Often a baby will cough, choke, click, and/or sputter at the breast when there is a forceful letdown. I would spray milk halfway across the room, but not all forceful letdown comes replete with spraying. Also babies tend to be excessively gassy and sometimes spit up a lot when there is a forceful letdown. My fire hose of a letdown made my baby pretty miserable for a spell.



    A reduction in supply can help if there is corresponding oversupply. But you've seen a drop in supply and it sounds like there is still a lot of fussiness associated with breastfeeding, right? Forceful letdown can occur independently from oversupply, so there are still some things you can do. Nursing reclined is what save my nursing relationship. Literally saved it. I would lean back on a few pillows, put my baby on my chest or stomach, and let my son latch. It can take a lot of adjustments in positioning to find something that works for you, so give it some practice even if it doesn't seem to work at first. Keep nursing very frequently. Frequent emptying of the breast helps. The really good news is that babies will grow into a forceful letdown. I sprayed for 15 months, but my baby was able to cope with it just fine once he was several months old.

    I also had to really work on the gas with him. I had to give a tummy massage then bicycle his legs between every feeding to work out the gas incrementally. A warm bath every evening followed by more leg bicycling also helped. It's tough, but they really do grow out of it as they get older. Mine started giggling whenever he passed gas starting around 6 months. Much nicer than the screaming that preceded.
    Thank you for the carrier suggestions and the websites.

    My son did cough and choke a lot in the earlier months but that went away. He has always been gassy although he seems to pass it without much problem. He does spit up quite a bit though so I always wondered if he was getting too much milk too quickly.

    I hadn't really nursed him much after my supply started to noticeably drop until tonight. I will try your suggestion about reclining while nursing. I really hope that this works. I'm getting excited because I've tried so many things but now I have so much more hope than I had when I first wrote this post. Thank you so much.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    25

    Default Re: so sad...

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*pianosinger View Post
    9 and 7 years old is certainly old enough to help out with household chores. Put those kids to work, Mama! Even my five-year-old has his job of picking up all the toys scattered around the house and putting them away in the kids' bedroom and my toddler "helps."
    Oh, they help out a little too! The 7 year old puts up a fight when I try to get her to do anything but my 9 year old actually begs to do more. The bulk of the house work gets done by me and the 15 year old.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2011
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    Default Re: so sad...

    Wow. That really does sound like overactive letdown. And that can make for a seriously cranky baby - been there, done that! Absolutely try the reclined nursing. Here is a LLLI information sheet on reclined positioning (also called laid back or biological nursing). You may need to recline a little more, or a little less, or try some different placements for your baby. I was seriously ready to throw in the towel before I started nursing while reclined. It resolved so many of our problems. Hopefully it will for you too!!!

    You might consider working on the gas a little too. Even if your baby is passing some of it well on his own, there still may be a little backed up in there causing some discomfort.

    Good luck! I really think you can make this work!!!
    K. Sophia - Mama to my little lactivore, the amazing Mr. X (11/10).

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    10,440

    Default Re: so sad...

    When my fourth child was born unable to nurse, I sat my older kids down at the time -- older meaning 4 and 6 -- and told them they were going to have to help me as I would have to pump a lot, which would mean I needed help around the house. Pumping takes up so much time, and he also had trouble eating, and that took just as much time as pumping. And we made up a chore list. And my four year old was unloading the dishwasher and putting away dishes. My 6 year old was putting away the breakable dishes and other things. They took turns sweeping, putting away laundry, etc. The 6 year old fixed lunch for everyone more than a few times. It's what had to happen, and even had I had a nursing baby, whom I could have tucked in a sling or wrap and kept on trucking, it's good for them

    Here are some links on high needs babies and how to cope. It sounds like you might have had some easy babies first and new have on who is probably in the higher end of high needs. I had three such, including my bottlefed one. They are exhausting. But I would be totally disconcerting to have had easier babies and then be faced with one who seems to be insatiable and spends a lot of time crying and being grouchy.
    http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/fus...high-need-baby
    http://www.lalecheleague.org/nb/nbsepoct96p136.html
    http://www.mothering.com/community/t...igh-needs-baby

    My 17 month old still cries in the car, my now 5 year cried all the time in the car (which was the only place he cried)and it is because they were uncomfortable. All four of mine had reflux, and the carsests, especially the infant carrier types, exacerbates it. Nursing or bottles help them feel better, so that could be what you were seeing. My second kid was also carsick rear facing...once we could turn him around, much of his discomfort and subsequent crying in the car went away.

    I think you might have an overactive letdown. My first son was so incredibly grouchy because he didn't like how fast my milk came out, but bottles and formula weren't an option. So I kept nursing him, and it wasn't until he was much older it all got better. My second kid liked the fast letdown because he just held his mouth open and swallowed. Third insisted on starting on the side where the flow is slower before switching.

    The problem with pumping FT is that most moms who try it don't use the right pumps, don't pump with the right sized horns and don't pump enough and thus lose their supply. FT pumping is really hard. It's even more time consuming than nursing, not to mention the supply issues. I've had to do it, but if I had a baby who could nurse, I'd much rather be nursing every hour than hooked to a pump where I am trapped and still have to feed the baby.

    http://www.wrapyourbaby.com/kinds.htm is a link to many types of baby carriers.
    Susan
    Mama to my all-natural boys: Ian, 9-4-04, 11.5 lbs; Colton, 11-7-06, 9 lbs, in the water; Logan, 12-8-08, 9 lbs; Gavin, 1-18-11, 9 lbs; and an angel 1-15-06
    18+ months and for Gavin, born with an incomplete cleft lip and incomplete posterior cleft palate
    Sealed for time and eternity, 7-7-93
    Always babywearing, cosleeping and cloth diapering. Living with oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD. Ask me about cloth diapering and sewing your own diapers!

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