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Thread: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

  1. #1

    Default Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    Long story short, I was not able to breastfeed with my first son (now 22 months old). He was 10 weeks early, so I pumped. My supply ended up dropping despite everything that I tried and I ended up switching to formula when he was two months old. It was very hard for me, I wanted to breastfeed but neither one of us were ready.

    With that being said, I now have my second little boy who is 3 weeks old, born 37 weeks, 3 days. Breastfeeding went really well for the first week and most of the second. My nips were very sore until week 2 and then it seemed to subside. By the end of week 2 I started getting sore again and desperate. I wanted to quit. I made an appointment with a LC at the hospital by me and found out he is biting me. He won't put his tongue down or out of his mouth far enough and he is also flutter sucking. He does not have a tongue tie. I spent over an hour with two different LC trying to get him to latch on properly. My nipples, bc of the improper latch are a hot mess, bruised and sore. I called my OB and am going to be treated for thrush (just in case) and waiting on the compounding pharm. to fill my script for APNO.
    In the mean time, the LC said to pump for a few days to let my nips heal and see if we can get him to keep his tongue down when he bottle feeds. He is getting better.
    I have taken him to see a chiropractor to see if that would help (had no issues) and have had craino sacral therapy performed. Nothing seems to be helping.
    I see a different LC on Friday but in the mean time, I'm wondering if anyone has any advice. I want more than anything to breastfeed but I feel like I'm failing. I don't know if I can keep up pumping and bottle feeding with a toddler running around. I'm flat out exhausted and feeling defeated.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    Nothing is wrong with his tongue? They checked for posterior TT?

    I think the second opinion is good. Keep trying to latch him so he won't foget, and I would probably do suck training myself to encourage a better latch.

    I have EPed for almost 17 months and I have four little kids You can do it.
    Susan
    Mama to my all-natural boys: Ian, 9-4-04, 11.5 lbs; Colton, 11-7-06, 9 lbs, in the water; Logan, 12-8-08, 9 lbs; Gavin, 1-18-11, 9 lbs; and an angel 1-15-06
    18+ months and for Gavin, born with an incomplete cleft lip and incomplete posterior cleft palate
    Sealed for time and eternity, 7-7-93
    Always babywearing, cosleeping and cloth diapering. Living with oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD. Ask me about cloth diapering and sewing your own diapers!

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    When baby unlatches, are your nipples symmetrical (like pencil erasers) or asymmetrical/wedged/ridged/creased (like new lipsticks)?

    I think the LC's advice to pump for a few days is... Questionable, I guess. Taking baby off the breast completely means risking baby forgetting how to latch or refusing to latch. I am not saying it's a terrible idea, when a mom is in pain. It's just that if you can keep the baby on the breast for even as little as 1-2 feedings per day, there's less chance of baby deciding he'd rather have the bottle.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    You are not failing, you are doing amazing considering you struggles!! I say continue bf him through the sore nipples. 3 weeks is still very early in

    the game and I wasn't comfortable with both breasts until 3 months. Your nipples will toughen up with time. I know my nipples got sore twice just

    after growth spurts. He is learning just like you are and with time you will both get better! Don't give up. Pratice makes perfect.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    well you know what I am going to say. Don't ya'll by now?

    Laid back positioning. Try it. If you have already tried it, try it again. It allows gravity to work for you rather than against you. It promotes self attachment (mom can still help baby attach.) It has been shown to help when baby cannot latch, or has a slipping latch, a shallow latch, or painful latch. Plus it's just a plain old over all more comfortable way to nurse.

    It often feels awkward at first. That is typical. Just make adjustments as needed and keep trying. "Laid back" refers to mom's posture. Mom can be anywhere from slightly reclined such as in a sitting on a couch but leaning slightly back on the backrest, to very reclined such as in bed propped up on some pillows. Baby can be in any position at all. There are many ways "do" laid back.

    Some moms find it works better to latch baby on while sitting upright and then leaning back. If laid back does not work, try every other position you can think of.

    Even if you do have thrush (questionable in my opinion, it sounds like baby has a very poor latch and you have sustained injury and that would be enough to explain the pain you are in) getting latch as comfortable as possible should help. Also APNO is often helpful in general.

    As far as exclusively pumping for a few days to allow healing- I know that sounds extreme but if moms nipples are so damaged there is no way she can nurse without excruciating pain, it may be helpful. IBCLCs I know and trust will go this route when mom is in too much pain to even try nursing. It maintains milk supply and thus (hopefully) maintains the nursing relationship. Basically it allows mom to "live to fight another day" so to speak.

    I don't think it has to be all or nothing, you could still nurse some of the time, if you like. Really there are no rules to any of this. You have to work things so they work best for you.

    If you want to try temporarily pumping rather than nursing, make sure baby is being fed in a breastfeeding supportive way, and make very sure pumping is completely comfortable and not exacerbating the issues. Also do not freak out is you cannot pump all that much. In general, know there are risks to that route.

    I wonder if there any way a nipple shield would help?

    and ditto second opinion. TT is tricky to diagnose, particulalry posterior tt, which can hurt like a .... And in general, severe latch issues are often very tricky.

    Articles etc: laid back http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfeeding.pdf and www.biologicalnurturing.com (watch the video here too)
    Paced bottle feeding (you could also consider syringe feeding, cup or spoon feeding) http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfedbaby.pdf

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    I'm in the exact same boat with my son. We were doing great for the first two weeks, just soreness from getting used to eachother. Now I think he's getting ready to hit a growth spurt because he wants to eat almost constantly. My nipples are so sore I've started to dread feedings. I thought I just needed to get used to the demand but now I see we must have a latch issue. After he's done my nipples almost always look like a new lipstick. I keep trying laid-back, but when I lay back his little nose gets smashed into my breast and he pulls off in frustration.

    I'm sorry you're having to go through this, but it is nice to know I'm not the only one. If you find out how to fix it PLEASE let me know.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*jessicamc View Post
    I'm in the exact same boat with my son. We were doing great for the first two weeks, just soreness from getting used to eachother. Now I think he's getting ready to hit a growth spurt because he wants to eat almost constantly. My nipples are so sore I've started to dread feedings. I thought I just needed to get used to the demand but now I see we must have a latch issue. After he's done my nipples almost always look like a new lipstick. I keep trying laid-back, but when I lay back his little nose gets smashed into my breast and he pulls off in frustration.

    I'm sorry you're having to go through this, but it is nice to know I'm not the only one. If you find out how to fix it PLEASE let me know.
    I strongly recommend seeing a LC, preferably an IBCLC, for hands-on help with baby's latch. But don't worry- even if you can't just fix this issue, your baby is pretty much guaranteed to outgrow it. A small baby has a small mouth and can't get a big, deep "bite" of breast, but babies grow fast and so do their mouths.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    We just went through this. It was hell. I bled for the first month, got infected several times, in so much pain I was crying, it was terrible. It really affected everything: bonding with my daughter, being available for the rest of my family, my emotional balance, everything. We did everything we were supposed to do. Laid back nursing, being meticulous about latch. And by 3 months pp, I, a veteran breast feeder, a pro who should have been able up do this, was about to give up. Literally, days away from going to bottles. I had thought she was TT from that first day, based on what I was feeling. But she wasn't. Her suck pattern was ghastly. She tucked the tip of her tongue down behind her gums, chewed to get the milk out, pushed my nipple out of her mouth with the back of her tongue at the same time as she was sucking it back in really hard. We did suck training. No help. Then our wonderful IBCLC said she had a PTT and an upper lip tie. I had *thought* so! I did a lot of googling, read about both things on Dr Kotlow's website, and cried. That was what had been going on all along. It was textbook! Then we were turned away by the ENT because PTT didn't exist, Mollie was gaining well, and I should either tough it out or pump and bottle feed. Then our pediatric dentist turned us away because Mollie was gaining well, PTT did exist but didn't affect breast feeding, some babies just don't take to breast feeding and I should pump and bottle feed. I was despondent. We were getting ready to fly yo NY to be seen by Dr Kotlow himself, when I found a dentist he had trained, who was only 3 hours away. We went, had her ties released, did a single session of craniosacral, and there's been no looking back. Immediately it was not painful. Immediately. I am so angry that we couldn't get help for so long. Please look at the possibility of PTT and upper lip tie. Let me know if you need specific links, and I will get them for you when I am on my other computer.
    Teal

    25 May 96 and 14 January 08 and 27 February 2012

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    Wow duckpond that is some story. How amazing you persevered. The vast ignorance about the various forms of tt and lip tie and how it can adversely affect breastfeeding makes me both angry and sad. But amazingly, it is way better today than just a few years ago. Progress is horribly slow but there is progress.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Latch Issues-I really need help-long post

    Honestly, it gave me a lot more understanding of women who say they tried but just couldn't breast feed. Even knowing what to do, I was very nearly one of them. I can only imagine going through something like that as a first-timer.
    Teal

    25 May 96 and 14 January 08 and 27 February 2012

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