help with routine

[@llli*codepink]

We are all leary of anyone that tells us to nurse at a certain time because our children are growing and changing soo much that routines tend to change as soon as they become predictable. I used to get up at 8am eat by 9 play for a while, lunch at 1130 nap at 1230, snack at 3, supper at 5 then a bath and bed around 7-8pm but now my littleone will sleep in untill 930 which throws my whole day into craziness. I just try to follow a pattern. Then she will always know what is coming next. And I try to nurse her when ever she wants (unless its like 10mins before a meal) because sometimes there is something I don't know about going on. Like a flu or allergy.
I'm sorry if you don't feel supported. That is not our intention. We just worry about schedualed feedings.

[@llli*aprilsmagic]

Wow! It's hard to believe that all the ladies on this forum are doing the exact same thing we are?? I was looking for some pro breastfeeding advice on having some guidelines on a day to day routine but instead it seems like my breastfeeding playgroup is getting some heat. Maybe LLL is the wrong place to ask a question and feel supported? Does anyone nurses on demand and at certain times during the day too? Has anyone wrote a book about baby patterns I can read if not?

Most of us here are doing on demand feeding, no scheduling involved, with letting the baby set the loose schedule. I would not want to be involved with any group that suggested that because I was nursing -- or bottlefeeding even -- my baby for the third time in an hour that I would be doing something wrong or would even be questioned about. Every baby is different, and if the group is suggesting that I conform to some book instead of listening to my baby's needs, then that is a group I would not be a part of. And I have done that several times in the last 7 years since my first baby was born. I walked out of several mother's groups at my church and in the neighborhood because I could tell the philosophy was not one I wished to listen to.

For books, I would suggest Womanly Art of Breastfeeding and anything by Dr. Sears.

[@llli*redpowerlady]

.Most of us here are doing on demand feeding, no scheduling involved, with letting the baby set the loose schedule. I would not want to be involved with any group that suggested that because I was nursing -- or bottlefeeding even -- my baby for the third time in an hour that I would be doing something wrong or would even be questioned about. Every baby is different, and if the group is suggesting that I conform to some book instead of listening to my baby's needs, then that is a group I would not be a part of. And I have done that several times in the last 7 years since my first baby was born. I walked out of several mother's groups at my church and in the neighborhood because I could tell the philosophy was not one I wished to listen to.

For books, I would suggest Womanly Art of Breastfeeding and anything by Dr. Sears.

Yes! And there really isn't pro-breastfeeding scheduling as breastfeeding is not meant to happen on a schedule. Many a parent who followed a feeding schedule ended up with a baby who was diagnosed with failure to thrive. You can absolutely have a routine, but that routine will still include on-demand feeding. So no matter when you wake, sleep, or play babe is still meant to be fed on demand.

What surprises me is that you are surprised that we are all doing the same as you. You are following your mama instincts in doing what you are doing and so are we. We are all also doing what is healthiest for our babe by feeding on demand. So of course we are all doing the same thing, we all want what is best for our babe.

[@llli*toddlerandtwins]

Not to be the lone opposing voice, but we did find a schedule naturally evolved after my girls were 6 month-ish. Nursing on weekends came close to the bottle schedule my DH established while I am at work. Sometimes they would cue to nurse one more time on weekends. Generally nursing occurs within an hour or so of when they get a bottle during the week(note my babes nurse 5-6 times a day and STTN, which is different than many others).
For us the toughest schedule to 'establish' was napping. With twins, we 'needed' to be on a schedule. My son is extremely high energy and when the twins would not nap at the same time it felt like you were on a merry go round of babies/toddler.
Your baby wants to be close to you when you are around, and may prefer to nurse. But you can also cuddle and play together. Baby may also want to suck for comfort, which can be done with you, or with a pacifier or rattles/teethers.
Flexibility is the key!

[@llli*aprilsmagic]

I don't think you are being a lone voice. Most of us find that babies settle into a loose routine around 6 months or even sooner. The idea is to follow the baby's cues and be flexible. It's not like we can say to baby, eat at 1, sleep from 2-4, etc, but if you notice baby sleeping around 2 every day, you go with it. And you feed on demand, but again, most babies have some sort of schedule to that too.

[@llli*katmar]

Yeah, I am not a scheduler myself, but LO has a schedule he pretty much keeps me to. But the schedule definitely revolves around sleep -- not nursing. We have a typical nursing pattern, sure, but it is more variable than sleep by quite a lot. Part of this is that I trust him to experience his own hunger and to be expressive about it -- in fact, I feel that given our current obesity epidemic in the US, helping my child to attend to his feelings of hunger and fullness is one of the more important contributions I can make to his longterm well being and health. So there are times he goes three hours between feedings (that only happened after he was eating significant solids!) and times he feeds several times in an hour. If you feel uncomfortable with the pattern for personal reasons, perhaps you could try working on LO drinking expressed milk from a cup? That's my go-to now when my boy wont settle enough to nurse well even though I can see that he's hungry. Perhaps part of the situation is that your LO is distracted and thus not eating much per nursing?

[@llli*lllkaren]

I am away for work tuesdays through thursdays and she is great with my dh. He feeds her EBM on demand which could be every 2,3,or maybe 4 hours. DD drinks about 3oz but maybe 4 or 2oz. she also has about three bottles between 8pm and 6am and co sleeps with him when I'm not home.

So you're away for three days, then home with her for four days, then away for three, etc? Having a predictable routine on your days home would certainly help make it easier to make those transitions, but at the same time your schedule probably makes it harder to actually establish one. If your friends are home with their babies every day, that could be why you're seeing a difference with your baby... You've got an extra challenging situation.

Nursing is as much about comfort and connection as it is about food... It may be that she's nursing a lot during the quiet times you have together simply for the closeness, since you have to be away at other times.

You might be able to encourage a little more of a routine by offering to nurse at certain times and places each day when you're home -- not making her wait if she's hungry earlier, but you also don't need to wait for her cues. Kind of like how bedtime rituals help create associations with sleep, you could try offering to nurse at the same time every day, in a particular chair, maybe snuggled up with a certain soft toy or blanket... If you pick a few times throughout the day (especially if they're roughly when she might normally want to nurse anyway), and then structure your day around them, it might help her get into more of a consistent rhythm. Or... not. But it wouldn't hurt to try.

[@llli*kjohanna]

I was thinking the same thing karen was with regards to the fact that your work schedule might make it a bit more of a challenge in finding a routine. Also, you alluded to the fact that your LO isn't real 'demanding', making watching her cues a little bit harder to pick up on. I remember reading about babies like that in The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding...you don't always have to wait until she's cueing to nurse, but to offer it as well. Does she nurse to sleep? I found that we fell into a pretty predictable nursing routine because my DD would most easily nurse to sleep (as opposed to rocking, bouncing, etc.) After watching the intervals of time for patterns in her nap routine, I found that she would nap every 90 min. throughout the day...until she didn't--now it's more like 2ish hours, with a longer stretch between her last nap and bedtime. She'll still have lots of times where she nurses in between, but always nurses to sleep. (so yes, she has definitely nursed 3 times in an hour before!) I would carry her off to nurse to sleep in our rocking chair in her room the moment she started blinking more slowly, rubbing her eyes, getting fussy, etc. While my DD seems to be fairly regular and organized in her napping habits (which our entire day seems to revolve around, since she only naps for a half hour at a time), there's a certain rhythm more than anything that I've gotten into by watching her. I think that's the biggest difference between watching your baby for cues, and setting a routine/schedule that baby follows (I'm not talking about scheduling feeds, though...I don't think that's a good idea for any baby). I think that people who have a very predictable routine that baby will protest if deviated from imposed that from birth, and the baby was conditioned to follow that routine. (that's just a guess though, since I didn't do that) Whether that's a good thing or not is a matter of personal choice I suppose. Whereas, when watching your baby for cues, it's the parent that becomes conditioned to finding a rhythm of watching your baby instead. Maybe spend a few days at home without any running around and see if you can pick up more on your baby's subtler cues? Even a gut feeling like 'i feel like I should do x,y,or z with her now' can count as a cue...trust your instincts!

[@llli*kjohanna]

Oh PS- The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding is a great read, if you haven't read it already. They talk about more than just breastfeeding, so maybe you could find some reassurance in there! Have you asked what, if any books the moms in your playgroup have read that have helped them? That might help you gain more insight into how they fell into a routine so easily..