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Thread: Biological Nurturing - How does it work?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    81

    Default Biological Nurturing - How does it work?

    Hi, I have a 3 week old baby and I've been dealing with really sore/cracked nipples apparently due to a shallow latch. Every position seems to hurt! Right breast is the worse! I posted here before and got a lot of good advice; nipples look better but I'm still in pain :/
    I was told laid back breastfeeding could help fix the latch but I' m not sure how to do it.
    I looked for videos on youtube but couldn t find anything helpful. I find the video on suzanne colzon's site is not very helpful either.
    Does anyone know where to find more information? Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Default Re: Biological Nurturing - How does it w

    https://breastfeedingusa.org/content...-breastfeeding has some line drawings of various positions to use.
    Susan
    Mama to my all-natural boys: Ian, 9-4-04, 11.5 lbs; Colton, 11-7-06, 9 lbs, in the water; Logan, 12-8-08, 9 lbs; Gavin, 1-18-11, 9 lbs; and an angel 1-15-06
    18+ months and for Gavin, born with an incomplete cleft lip and incomplete posterior cleft palate
    Sealed for time and eternity, 7-7-93
    Always babywearing, cosleeping and cloth diapering. Living with oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD. Ask me about cloth diapering and sewing your own diapers!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Default Re: Biological Nurturing - How does it w

    Oh dear, still having painful latch? Ugh, I am so sorry! I am a huge believer in laid back positioniong aka biological nurturing, but even I admit it does not work well for all moms. But I do think it is worth trying and to keep coming back to.

    The key with laid back is it is NOT a one size fits all prescriptive latching technique. It is NOT "Hold baby in position A, hold breast in position B, make baby gape to a X degree angle and pull baby in a Z rate of speed" etc. I exagerate, but that was kind of the way breastfeeding was taught for many decades. For some moms it worked fine, but for many it did not. So Colsun began to obsever that this was not how many succesful nursers did things. She decided to study what types of positions were supported by a babies normal reflexes and instinctual nursing behaviors and a mothers instinctual behaviors and that is basically how biological nurturing (the theory) was born. But this is how many moms have been nursing forver. I remember when I first saw it I though "Well, that is how I nursed my second baby." In other words, the theory is that moms are 'taught' unnatural positioning and biological nurturing attempts to describe what moms who are left to thier own devices will more or less do natually.
    So the basic idea with laid back, is to get yourself and baby into a position that is comfortable and supported for both, and more or less allow baby to take the lead. That does not mean allow baby to search and struggle forever, mom may need to adjust and direct baby quite a bit, but it is a good idea to start with a very calm baby and mom so that mom has the patience to let baby figure it out a bit.
    You can be almost sitting up, if leaning way back is too awkward. Baby can be held on your body at any angle, as long as baby can reach the nipple where the nipple naturally lies. Some moms, esp. large breasted moms, may still need to support the breast but much of the idea behind laid back is to allow mom to not have to contort and hold her breast at an unnatural level.

    I have seen moms who have trouble with laid back latch their babies in a sitting up position first and then lay back.

    Are you still seeing an IBCLC? Was she familiar with biological nurturing? It can often help to have hands on assistance with this. I know you mentioned in another thread not having a good expericence with your local LLL Leader, but what about attending a LLL meeting? You may meet other moms there with similar concerns who can have good tips for you?

    You can try contacting Colson and seeing if she knows of a breastfeeding helper near you who knows her work. She lectures all over the world, its a possibility, I suppose.

    Colson has other articles on her site with photos, she aslo has a book that goes into much more detail about her work, has lots of photos & some troubleshooting. I also prefer line drawings for several reasons. have you looked at teh LLL description of Laid back? http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfeeding.pdf

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    Default Re: Biological Nurturing - How does it w

    Hi, I'm seeing an IBBCLC as you suggested. She was of some help, and latch is now only slightly unconfortable on the left breast, but very painful on the right. Seems milk transfer is good, since baby is gaining weight, but I offer at least 2 bottles of EBM per day, since the pain becomes unbearable at the end of the day.
    With the LC I'm seeing now we got to a point where she said she doesn't have any more suggestions to offer; apparently I'm doing everything right and I just have to keep trying. "Sometimes it just suddenly gets better and we don't know why or when" she said. So I'm somehow waiting for that magical moment. I tried the laid back position a few days ago and it seemed a lot better for a few feeds, but suddenly it started to hurt again, so I'm thinking that sometimes it also gets worse and we don't know why or when...
    The local LLL leader I was in contact previously was 2 years ago with DS1. She wasn't of ANY help, suggested using a lactation aid but then she admited not knowing how to use it... Awful experience. I then resorted to Eping, which I am considering again if this doesn't get better soon. This problem is affecting everything, since I am always sad or irritated and I obsess about this all day. This said I don't really care about it being BM or formula; it's more about the bonding and the breastfeeding relationship :/

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Biological Nurturing - How does it w

    Its possible the bottles, while good that they are giving you a break, may be teaching your baby a poor latching technique. So I would suggest, in order of what I think will be most helpful in preventing nipple confusion:

    1)for those feedings, nurse on the less sore side and give the really sore side a break, pump on that side but don't give bottles.

    2)Cup or spoon feed baby instead of bottles for those feedings- find a good cup feeding video here-these are also avaliable in English: http://www.nbci.ca/index.php?option=...d=18&Itemid=54

    3) Use paced bottle feeding for those feedings http://www.llli.org/docs/00000000000...astfedbaby.pdf

    As far as LLL, I know you were not happy with that one LLL leader, and I am very sorry about that. But LLL Leaders are volunteer breastfeeding peer counselors. We are not Lactation Consultants and we are not expected to know everything about every breastfeeding device there is, our job is to provide information & suggestions to moms so they can figure things out. Even two years ago there were online videos or customer support for an at the breast supplementer, which I assume is what you are referring to? Many moms who would benefit alot from an at the breast supplementer are never even given that option for supplementing by their doctors, so just providing that info to you was a service-unfortunately, it was not helpful to you, but if your concern was low supply I don't think it was generally a bad suggestion. For low supply, at the breast supplmenters are an often an excellent option that has saved breastfeeding for many moms, but they certainly are a hassle to learn to use. Also they are probably not a good choice if the issues include a painful latch.

    But that is in the past. Do you know if she is even still volunteering? maybe there is another Leader you can contact now, it does not have to be the closest Group to you. And at a meeting there would be other bfding moms who may help, not just Leaders. Look for all I know it would not help, I am just trying to find a way for you to see some laid back breastfeeding in action or get hands on help.


    As far as waiting for that magic moment, it is true that as bb grows, you heal, and you guys figure this out, it may get better "on its own." but if you are still in such pain that you have to bottle feed part of the day, that concerns me.
    Can you explain what happens during the nursing session as far as the pain goes? Does the pain modulate? Is it more painful in the beginning, or at the end, or in the middle?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
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    183

    Default Re: Biological Nurturing - How does it w

    Darn! all of my pics are taken by me, looking down at LO....so not much help for you. But, we nurse laid back all the time. Right now, LO is in boba carrier on my front, I am leaning back in computer chair, he is nursing (one hand supporting the side he's nursing on). I'ver also nursed him like this NOT in a carrier (so LO facing me, legs straddling my waist, and sitting on my lap. Will see if I can find any pics.

    ETA:

    Here are some links...

    http://www.beyondprenatals.com/2010/...tures-and.html
    http://www.biologicalnurturing.com/video/bn3clip.html
    http://thebreastfeedingblog.com/2011...cal-nurturing/

    More nursing positions (reclined, side lying, etc)
    http://www.lemonpuss.com/2011/02/12/chomper/
    http://www.mommajorje.com/2011/03/to...ituations.html
    http://iamachild.files.wordpress.com...pg?w=535&h=359
    http://naturalparentsnetwork.com/sid...ding-tutorial/
    Last edited by @llli*elisabetsey; January 3rd, 2012 at 05:15 PM.
    3/2011 {EBF to 6mos, now BF and BLS, CD, EC'ing since 5mos - in underwear at 11mos, and babywearing}
    Babywearing International has chapters - see if there's one near you... most have lending libraries!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Default Re: Biological Nurturing - How does it w

    I know you said you have EPed in the past. I would urge you to NOT do again. It is much, much harder when you have other kids. It has been a feat that I have EPed for almost a year, with four kids.

    Yes, the LC is right. Sometimes, it just happens. kaitlynsmom here had that happen to her twice. It took her a couple months to work out all the kinks and nurse pain-free.
    Susan
    Mama to my all-natural boys: Ian, 9-4-04, 11.5 lbs; Colton, 11-7-06, 9 lbs, in the water; Logan, 12-8-08, 9 lbs; Gavin, 1-18-11, 9 lbs; and an angel 1-15-06
    18+ months and for Gavin, born with an incomplete cleft lip and incomplete posterior cleft palate
    Sealed for time and eternity, 7-7-93
    Always babywearing, cosleeping and cloth diapering. Living with oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD. Ask me about cloth diapering and sewing your own diapers!

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