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Thread: Peppermint Ice Cream

  1. #21
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    Jun 2009
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    Default Re: Peppermint Ice Cream

    I agree w/gamom. I think all you have here is a serious case of yesthisisallnormal! Even the being confused. Trust me, that is very normal and never goes away. I wish I could tell you it all becomes clear at such and such point, but in my experience parenting in general is confusing. Sigh.

    Smart to pump to give yourself a stash for when you return to work, but don't expect to be able to pump what you will once you are pumping while back at work. Right now you have a growing baby drinking up all (or anyway most) of your milk all day and so anything *extra* you can pump is good. You know that what a mom pumps is a very poor indicator of what her actual ‘supply’ is, this is so important! So many moms let the pump output freak them out unnecessarily. Again, Kellymom is a great resource for pumping info & tips, and for going back to work concerns in general, as is this website, also if you have not gotten a copy of The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding (8th edition) I strongly suggest it, it has everything you ever wanted to know about breastfeeding in general plus two chapters dedicated only to going back to work/separation from baby and pumping.

    Does baby ‘need’ to be burped? He may, and that is fine, but many breastfed babies don’t. And some babies prefer one side ‘at a time’, others always nurse on both breasts every feeding, some go back and forth a few times, and most do some combination. It’s all normal. Just keep nursing whenever baby or you want to, for as long as baby and you want to, on whatever side or combination of sides you and baby want to. I don’t think you need to worry about when baby is actively swallowing and when baby is “comfort” nursing, that kind of differentiation is only needed when a (usually much younger) baby is not gaining weight. Also don’t worry about how long it has been since baby last nursed, its fine to nurse more frequently than every 2.5 hours if baby wants (babies usually tend to want to cluster nurse-nurse very frequently part of the time and then take a longer stretch between nursing here and there. This also can make what are actually two or more nursing sessions seem to blend into one very long one.) At La Leche League, we try to ask how many times per day baby is nursing, (normal would be about 10 times OR MORE (sometimes much more) per 24 hours.) When people say baby is nursing every 2 or 3 or whatever hours, I wonder if someone told them to feed baby every 2, 3 or whatever hours. Babies are not born with wristwatches on, and usually (there are exceptions) babies do not nurse in any kind of regular every such and such hours pattern. Slowly, slowly, overtime, babies get more efficient at nursing & tummy grows and holds more and nursing sessions tend to get shorter overall and less frequent, and even more regular. But it is not a steady one way street, because due to growth spurts, developmental progression, illness, upsets, and for mysterious reasons only babies know, baby will increase time at the breast here and here. And nursing babies & children of all ages still at times want to ‘comfort’ nurse, nurse for a long time, fall asleep at the breast, and/or keep nursing while asleep. It’s all normal and good.

  2. #22
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    Oct 2011
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    97

    Default Re: Peppermint Ice Cream

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    I think all you have here is a serious case of yesthisisallnormal! Even the being confused. Trust me, that is very normal and never goes away. I wish I could tell you it all becomes clear at such and such point, but in my experience parenting in general is confusing. Sigh.
    With the benefit of hindsight, I think you are right about the raging case of yesthisisallnormal! It seems like it was likely a growth spurt, as the crying after eating has subsided somewhat. I still wonder though if he really just wants to spend all day sucking and that's why he fusses after eating.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg
    Smart to pump to give yourself a stash for when you return to work, but don't expect to be able to pump what you will once you are pumping while back at work.
    I haven't been stressing about pump output right now for that very reason, but I still see a pretty significant amount of milk even shortly after he eats. This morning, for example, I got 4.5 oz about an hour after he ate. Hopefully that doesn't mean he didn't eat enough, and just that I have extra milk!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg
    I don’t think you need to worry about when baby is actively swallowing and when baby is “comfort” nursing, that kind of differentiation is only needed when a (usually much younger) baby is not gaining weight.
    Should I let him nurse as long as he wants, even if it's non-nutritive? He typically comes off the breast a few times during the course of a feeding but sometimes I feel like it's by mistake so I put him back on.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg
    At La Leche League, we try to ask how many times per day baby is nursing, (normal would be about 10 times OR MORE (sometimes much more) per 24 hours.)
    That's a lot! We have about 7-8 feedings per day normally I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg
    When people say baby is nursing every 2 or 3 or whatever hours, I wonder if someone told them to feed baby every 2, 3 or whatever hours.
    This sounds like something I would do. But he really does get fussy right around 2.5 hours, sometimes so precisely that it's eerie.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Peppermint Ice Cream

    Should I let him nurse as long as he wants, even if it's non-nutritive? He typically comes off the breast a few times during the course of a feeding but sometimes I feel like it's by mistake so I put him back on.
    Yes, let baby nurse as long as he wants, unless of course you are needing to do something else, are uncomfotable, etc. Basically, nurse as long as both of you like. I would love to take the term non-nutritive nursing right out of the breastfeeding dictionary. It is such a confusing term.

    Babies nurse for comfort and nutrition-often simultaneously. Babies will hang out and nurse for long periods, or take frequent snacks, or some combo. During a 'single' feeding, they may come off an on several times.They will fall asleep at the breast and go right on nursing (or start up again if you try to unlatch them.) This is the biologically normal way babies nurse and it is not only normal, it is the way baby keeps well fed and moms milk supply appropriate. Babies need more or less milk at different times, that is what all the talk about growth spurts is about, and baby knows how to get enough. If a mom regularly limits babies feedings, in duration or frequency, she runs the risk of keeping baby from getting enough and harming supply. Plus, she is taking away the babies primary comfort methodology. And why? there is not reason to do this in the normal course of breastfeeding. There is rarely any reason, at all, ever, to limit a breastfeeding babies feedings-unless mom needs/wants a break. You cannot overfeed a breastfed baby! mommal had a good description of 'comfort nursing' on another thread here, it was a question about comfort nursing-check that out.

    This sounds like something I would do. But he really does get fussy right around 2.5 hours, sometimes so precisely that it's eerie.
    Of course there may be no reason at all to increase nursing sessions. On the other hand, there is no reason to wait until a baby is fussy to nurse him either! Crying is a late sign of hunger, I am not sure how fussy your guy is getting, but it may be he has given some other cues prior to the fussies. In any case, you may find that you would like to offer to nurse as well, whenever you like.

    Since the original concern in this post was that consuming peppermint would decrease supply, I will say that not nursing frequently enough is much more likely to decrease supply. If a mom calls me and says her supply is decreasing, (and it really sounds like it is-often it is a false alarm) the first thing I ask is how often baby is nursing. I always suggest nursing more, but if she says 7 or 8 times a day, I STRONGLY suggest she try increasing nursing session frequency.
    Last edited by @llli*lllmeg; November 29th, 2011 at 08:50 AM. Reason: posted while kids were wild, so forgot some stuff.

  4. #24
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    Oct 2011
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    Default Re: Peppermint Ice Cream

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg View Post
    Yes, let baby nurse as long as he wants, unless of course you are needing to do something else, are uncomfortable, etc. Basically, nurse as long as both of you like.
    Lately I've been trying to let him nurse until he literally is looking around for something else to do, and it's certainly been giving me comfort that he's eating enough and feeling satisfied after a feeding!

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg
    On the other hand, there is no reason to wait until a baby is fussy to nurse him either! Crying is a late sign of hunger, I am not sure how fussy your guy is getting, but it may be he has given some other cues prior to the fussies.
    I'm just talking about a whimper or two, not full-out crying for the most part. I'm still working out his hunger signals; rooting usually works but since his hands are in his mouth all the time anyways I can't use that as an indicator. :

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*lllmeg
    Since the original concern in this post was that consuming peppermint would decrease supply, I will say that not nursing frequently enough is much more likely to decrease supply. If a mom calls me and says her supply is decreasing, (and it really sounds like it is-often it is a false alarm) the first thing I ask is how often baby is nursing. I always suggest nursing more, but if she says 7 or 8 times a day, I STRONGLY suggest she try increasing nursing session frequency.
    After testing over the course of a few days I've pretty much concluded that the ice cream has a pretty minimal impact on supply. Just to be safe I'm cutting back onportion size which is a good thing to do anyways.

    Interesting that you recommend increasing nursing frequency to increase supply. Do you recommend offering more often during the day, or adding a feeding at night, or does it not matter as long as you're nursing more? I imagine adding a pumping session would have the same effect, especially if it's during a time when he wouldn't normally be eating, like after he goes to bed?

    Thanks again for all your advice and encouragement; I really appreciate it as we figure out what works best for us!

  5. #25
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    Jun 2009
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    Default Re: Peppermint Ice Cream

    Interesting that you recommend increasing nursing frequency to increase supply. Do you recommend offering more often during the day, or adding a feeding at night, or does it not matter as long as you're nursing more? I imagine adding a pumping session would have the same effect, especially if it's during a time when he wouldn't normally be eating, like after he goes to bed?
    If a mom has low supply, the standard recommendation is to nurse more. Aside from the hormonal factors, breastfeeding is a supply and demand system. The body responds to milk being taken out by making more milk, and it responds best when milk is taken out frequently-very frequently in the early weeks. This is why scheduling (really, delaying) feedings-even so called 'soft' scheduling-and 'baby training' is potentially so detrimental to breastfeeding. (There are other issues with baby training but for this discussion I will stick to what it does to milk supply.) It can really harm supply. If a mom had oversupply to begin with, it may be ok overall, at least in terms of baby getting enough milk. But if a mom had normal or low supply, limiting and or spacing out feedings can be very detrimental to supply.

    As far as when to add nursing sessions-This would largely depend on the age of the baby, how severe the low supply concern is, and what mom is willing/able to do. Certainly if there is a long stretch over night (more than 4 hours) and mom is concerned about her supply, (or baby is very young) I would usually suggest she add at least one nursing session overnight. But this is going to be very individual.

    A healthy baby will usually nurse if the breast is offered, and many babies nurse perfectly fine in their sleep. This is one reason LLL suggests mothers sleep in close proximity to their babies-so mom can more easily nurse overnight as much as either she and/or baby wish. Yes, of course one could increase supply by pumping. But pumps are very different than babies in how they extract milk, and their use carries with them many risks and pitfalls. They are a very helpful, indeed, invaluable tool when needed, but if a healthy baby just needed to nurse more, I would usually suggest that the mom simply nurse more, as it is in most cases the much more simple and effective option.

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