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Thread: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

  1. #1
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    Default 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Hi!
    I'm currently attempting to jump my supply so I can more fully breastfeed my 7 month old and give her solids. Here's a little back history: I have never fully stopped breastfeeding at any point, but, by doctor's recommendation, I was required to supplement starting at 3 months. Supplementing has become, at least, 75% of baby's diet- sometimes less. At most lately she has about 12-18 ounces of supplement a day, and she has been able to maintain or gain weight, but it does seem to be a bit slow going. Now, I've always thought that I had a supply issue (even from the very beginning) because weight has been an issue on and off, but lately i've come to realize that actually might never have been the issue....I'm sure its a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance.

    Ive begun pumping again to jump my supply and everything is okay- I have a so-so/decent volume of milk (thankfully) but even if I pump 6 ounces (it's been this way from the beginning) or more, I will only have 1/4 inch of visible hindmilk on whatever i've pumped (this is even after 45 minutes or so of good electric pumping). Also, She has an excellent latch and has been great about switching between bottle/breast although she gets frustrated with the flow. Now I know hindmilk doesn't just switch on but i'm sure I should have more hindmilk for all the foremilk i'm able to pump. I'm curious if anyone has had this happen before and if changing their diet/doing anything in particular has helped. Thoughts? Thanks!

    ETA: i've bought and read mother food and i've seen great suggestions in there- including increasing dietary fat, but, even after eating lots of natural fat (fresh butter, full fat yogurt, etc.,) I haven't noticed much of a change lol just lots of weight gain for myself lol but my baby has lots of wet diapers (6-10) and because she's taking supplement, her poopy diapers are maybe 1-3 every day/other day or so but if she gets more breastmilk, it's definitely 2-3 a day.
    Last edited by @llli*msstc; October 24th, 2011 at 02:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Nope 1/4 inch of hindmilk is actually completely normal.

    Without knowing your specific situation it's hard to know why your baby had weight gain issues. But I will say this- foremilk/ hindmilk imbalance almost always coincides with oversupply and almost always has other symptoms. In fact simply because of the volume of milk women with OS produce, babies tend to gain weight quickly despite having lots of foremilk. Sometimes if OS is not resolved there can be later weight gain issues.

    But I would think, being that your daughter was receiving up to 75% of her diet in formula even if you once had OS it would have resolved itself. I honestly have not met a person who truly did not make enough fatty milk for their baby. But supplementing with formula can surely wreck a good milk supply.
    Mama to five beautiful kids- 9, 8, 3, 2 and currently nursing our new baby girl born 1/20/2013


    "It should not be necessary to tell reasonably intelligent mammals to suckle and not dismember their neonates." ~Susan Blustein

  3. #3
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*melissawoods View Post
    Nope 1/4 inch of hindmilk is actually completely normal.

    Without knowing your specific situation it's hard to know why your baby had weight gain issues. But I will say this- foremilk/ hindmilk imbalance almost always coincides with oversupply and almost always has other symptoms. In fact simply because of the volume of milk women with OS produce, babies tend to gain weight quickly despite having lots of foremilk. Sometimes if OS is not resolved there can be later weight gain issues.

    But I would think, being that your daughter was receiving up to 75% of her diet in formula even if you once had OS it would have resolved itself. I honestly have not met a person who truly did not make enough fatty milk for their baby. But supplementing with formula can surely wreck a good milk supply.
    Is it? REALLY? wow... lol weird.
    I only suspected there should be more mostly because baby has had (currently and from the begining) all the hallmark signs of a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance including lots of excess gas, a bit of a frothiness to her stools, she seems to be hungry fairly quickly- so this sort of held of my theory of an imbalance....Its funny you mentioned other issues go hand in hand with foremilk/hindmilk imbalance- It didn't occur to me until you said this but I also seem to have a fast let down (multiple fast let downs at that) where baby ends of coughing and choking. I now pump before I feed her to combat this, but i'm pretty positive I don't have oversupply. There was a time when baby was a month or two old and relied solely on being on the breast... she was on my breast so often and for as long as she wanted and it seemed her gaining weight was still a problem. She has a great latch (and has had from when she was born), never had any health problems or anything....that's mostly why i'm so confused. I totally agree with you- lol formula did wreck my good milk supply (and it seemed she never had coughing/choking issues back then either- that seemed to start when I had cut down on my breastfeeding)... I just wonder if i'm just that strange, weird percentage of women that just doesn't make enough fatty milk? I just think 1/4 inch for 8 ounces of milk is pretty bad....

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Well here's my personal experience-

    I don't pump anymore very often, but I used to pump easily 5-6 oz POST FEED and maybe 10% of it was the thick cream. I also have a fast letdown- choking and sputtering until he got big enough to handle it. He never had many green stools (just occasionally) but he did have colic and he does have some food allergies.

    However, weight gain was never an issue. He has really slowed down since 6 months, which is totally normal for a breastfed baby. But till that point he was gaining a half pond a week. He's almost 21 lbs. So I'm sure he's gotten enough fat. LOL
    Mama to five beautiful kids- 9, 8, 3, 2 and currently nursing our new baby girl born 1/20/2013


    "It should not be necessary to tell reasonably intelligent mammals to suckle and not dismember their neonates." ~Susan Blustein

  5. #5
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*melissawoods View Post
    Well here's my personal experience-

    I don't pump anymore very often, but I used to pump easily 5-6 oz POST FEED and maybe 10% of it was the thick cream. I also have a fast letdown- choking and sputtering until he got big enough to handle it. He never had many green stools (just occasionally) but he did have colic and he does have some food allergies.

    However, weight gain was never an issue. He has really slowed down since 6 months, which is totally normal for a breastfed baby. But till that point he was gaining a half pond a week. He's almost 21 lbs. So I'm sure he's gotten enough fat. LOL
    Lol i'm sooooo envious... lol I wish I could have a little of what you've got! lol
    Isn't fast letdown ridiculous? lol I wonder if maybe I hold on for a little while longer like you did and baby gets a bit older, maybe baby will be able to take the fast let downs and maybe that will encourage baby to remove milk better.... hmmmmm lol you are totally giving me so much to think about! lolll but seriously, uh, can I have a little of what you've got? like say a squishy and adorably chunky little baby, and LOTS of fatty milk? lolll!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    I think they do get used to the fast letdown. He had to, since he's never had a bottle. LOL He's 9 months now and starting to thin out from all the crawling and pulling up on everything.

    But, honestly, it seems like you are making enough milk mama, and it's probably plenty fatty. It does sound like you have a pediatrician who may have shaken your confidence a bit, though. You could work on slowly removing the formula and see how she does? Not everyone is destined to be big. My older two kids (different dad, passed away when they were toddlers and I remarried, long story) are TINY still! They tried to tell me they had failure to thrive as infants. Here we are at 7 and 8 years old and they are both less than 50 lbs. And now the doctors are saying it's fine, there is too much obesity in America. It's like you can't win!

    Here's a great link for kellymom-http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/decrease-formula.html
    Mama to five beautiful kids- 9, 8, 3, 2 and currently nursing our new baby girl born 1/20/2013


    "It should not be necessary to tell reasonably intelligent mammals to suckle and not dismember their neonates." ~Susan Blustein

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    If you let milk stand, on,y the very top is cream. If you look at the whole milk though, the upper 2/3 to 3/4 or even more is the rest of what could be called hind milk. It's all fattier than what is left at the bottom, the bluish looking low fat milk, which is more like foremilk.

    Your milk is totally normal.

    I did have issues way at the beginning with this child, when I started to EP, in which I really didn't have a lot of fat, but I had a terrible, terrible OS. A few double cream bottles and letting things even out got the doctors off my back regarding his weight.
    Susan
    Mama to my all-natural boys: Ian, 9-4-04, 11.5 lbs; Colton, 11-7-06, 9 lbs, in the water; Logan, 12-8-08, 9 lbs; Gavin, 1-18-11, 9 lbs; and an angel 1-15-06
    18+ months and for Gavin, born with an incomplete cleft lip and incomplete posterior cleft palate
    Sealed for time and eternity, 7-7-93
    Always babywearing, cosleeping and cloth diapering. Living with oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD. Ask me about cloth diapering and sewing your own diapers!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*melissawoods View Post
    I think they do get used to the fast letdown. He had to, since he's never had a bottle. LOL He's 9 months now and starting to thin out from all the crawling and pulling up on everything.

    But, honestly, it seems like you are making enough milk mama, and it's probably plenty fatty. It does sound like you have a pediatrician who may have shaken your confidence a bit, though. You could work on slowly removing the formula and see how she does? Not everyone is destined to be big. My older two kids (different dad, passed away when they were toddlers and I remarried, long story) are TINY still! They tried to tell me they had failure to thrive as infants. Here we are at 7 and 8 years old and they are both less than 50 lbs. And now the doctors are saying it's fine, there is too much obesity in America. It's like you can't win!

    Here's a great link for kellymom-http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/decrease-formula.html
    Yay! Thanks for giving me some hope!...
    and thanks for that very informative link! I copied all the info down in my phone and will totally refer to it as I decrease! I'll be gradually cutting down the supplements as baby becomes more accustomed to receiving most of her milk from the breast- oh, also, I was able to purchase a lact-aid supplement system so i'm hopeful to cut out the bottle entirely. I'm still getting used to how to work it (the darned tubes on it are a little finnicky), lol but i'm anxious to get rid of the bottle! ohhh the thinning out is such a reality check, isn't it? My sis' baby
    boy thinned out sooooo fast! It's like once they hit 12 months there's no going back I miss my little nephew being cute, fat and squishy allover LOL.

    Aw you are so great!
    It's nice to find such awesome and wonderful advice- even if it means a reality check or two lol The pediatrician isn't too bad lol if I leave my breastfeeding out of the conversation... I let him think I do formula just to make it easier because I know some doctors are not too cool with the idea...sometimes I wonder if anyone remembers a time before formula existed . You know what? I think some peds get a kick out of shaking us mamas up....I wonder how anyone could question something that is so natural and beautiful... And you are totally right- It's so funny to me! your babies are the perfect weight- and with all this talk of obesity and large, overweight children, I would think having children that are a bit on the slim side, would make your ped so happy- less health problems, happier and more active lives, etc...sigh it seems like some people with never truly be satisfied! lol and that's when you have to tune them out!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Your milk is normal. Mama, honestly I think it sounds like you're psyching yourself out- "What if I'm in that strange, weird percentage of moms that doesn't make fatty milk?"... When I had problems with supply I found the idea that I might be one of those rare moms who couldn't make enough milk a perversely appealing possibility. It explained everything without me having to keep looking for a cause for what was going on, or a solution to the problem.

    aprilsmagic really made a fantastic point about the hindmilk- that cream on the top of the bottle really is just the cream, the pure fat. There's fatty hindmilk underneath the cream, too.

    Can you tell us more about what led your doctor to suggest supplementation? Maybe there is something going on there that got missed, something that wasn't about your milk.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  10. #10
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    Default Re: 6 ounces+, & nearly no hindmilk

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*aprilsmagic View Post
    If you let milk stand, on,y the very top is cream. If you look at the whole milk though, the upper 2/3 to 3/4 or even more is the rest of what could be called hind milk. It's all fattier than what is left at the bottom, the bluish looking low fat milk, which is more like foremilk.

    Your milk is totally normal.

    I did have issues way at the beginning with this child, when I started to EP, in which I really didn't have a lot of fat, but I had a terrible, terrible OS. A few double cream bottles and letting things even out got the doctors off my back regarding his weight.
    You are so right....
    I did notice that! It's funny when I looked around online, I've seen that some people are able to get such thick, creamy and rich layers on top and I think because i've never been able to get that I kind of felt like something might be wrong... but I did notice, on closer inspection, that I can see more fat below the "creamy top"- I think maybe some people are just fortunate to have more fat, like melissawoods!

    lol can I ask a question without being a pain?
    what's EP and OS? lol I'm totally un-hip when it comes to acronyms lol You also have a lot of thick cream in your milk too? Sooo lucky! I would try skimming some of the cream off the top
    and putting into another bottle but I never seem to have enough to scoop!

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