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Thread: Please help if you can... :(

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    10,440

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    Are you sure it is all foremilk?

    If you pump and get anything, and it stands, what does it look like? Because, honestly, I have never heard of anything at all like this. And I have a lot of experience. I think the green stools are more likely to be because of something else.

    Weight...it depends on other factors before I start worrying.

    Breast compressions...go to the pumping forum and there is a how-to link in there. Give it a whirl. You may get more milk.

    Is your pump new, or is it the one you used before? If so, it might be worn out, as honestly, it sounds like you have plenty of milk.
    Susan
    Mama to my all-natural boys: Ian, 9-4-04, 11.5 lbs; Colton, 11-7-06, 9 lbs, in the water; Logan, 12-8-08, 9 lbs; Gavin, 1-18-11, 9 lbs; and an angel 1-15-06
    18+ months and for Gavin, born with an incomplete cleft lip and incomplete posterior cleft palate
    Sealed for time and eternity, 7-7-93
    Always babywearing, cosleeping and cloth diapering. Living with oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD. Ask me about cloth diapering and sewing your own diapers!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    278

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    I too, have never heard of a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance like you describe.

    I will say, I would be concerned about the weight loss. Weight loss can slow considerably at this age but she shouldn't be losing that much IMO. I think green mucous-y stools is definitely allergy. That can affect weight gain. It will also cause colic. My son cried like someone was killing him every time I ate dairy. Now he can tolerate me consuming dairy, but if he inadvertently eats something with dairy he breaks out in hives. I would do a dairy elim diet including hidden sources of dairy...
    Mama to five beautiful kids- 9, 8, 3, 2 and currently nursing our new baby girl born 1/20/2013


    "It should not be necessary to tell reasonably intelligent mammals to suckle and not dismember their neonates." ~Susan Blustein

  3. #13

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    The term foremilk/hindmilk imbalance causes a lot of confusion. The breast really only produces one type of milk. Milk that is stored between feedings pools behind the nipple and the fat globules kind of stick in the milk ducts further back. Since the stored milk is what baby has immediate access to at the beginning of the feeding, it's described as "foremilk." During let-down, the milk is pushed down the ducts toward the nipple, along with the fat globules that were lodged in the ducts, so as the feeding progresses, the fat content gradually increases (thus, "hindmilk"). But all the milk the breast makes starts out the same. There's a great explanation of it here: http://thefunnyshapedwoman.blogspot....-quest-of.html. I just wanted to get that out there because it comes up so much.

    It sounds like your baby started out at a normal weight and gained fine for the first 4 months, and then her weight gain rather suddenly dropped off and she started losing weight instead. Is that right?

    Has your baby had green stools all along, or did that start at the same time as the weight problems?

    Have you ever had breast surgery or an injury to your breasts? Do you have any chronic health issues, like diabetes, hypothyroidism, or anemia? Are you using any type of hormonal birth control?

    Was the FTT diagnosed based just on the weight loss, or did your doctor think your baby was developmentally behind in other ways? What type of specialist were you referred to?

    I would think that if there were any kind of problem with your milk or your supply, or if your baby was allergic to something in your diet, it would have been an issue from the beginning, not suddenly showing up after 5 months. I could be wrong though. Mucousy stools, "colic", and rash can be symptoms of an allergy, among other things. Has your baby had other rashes besides in the diaper area? Has she had any respiratory problems?

    It's not clear to me exactly what's going on, but my general suggestions would be --

    - Keep trying to get ahold of the LC, or try to find another one who is more available. Check the ICLA website for the names of board certified LCs in your area. Given that your baby is losing weight, I'd even suggest telling them it's an emergency to help get you in to see someone more quickly.

    - Instead of block feeding, you might try nursing very frequently (say, 1.5 to 2 hours from the start of one feeding to the start of the next). The shorter the amount of time between feedings, the less time there is for milk to accumulate in the breast, so the less "foremilk" there will be. With frequent feeds, even if they're very short, the amount of fat stays more uniform through the feeding. Let her nurse as long as she wants to on the first breast, and when she comes off by herself, offer the other breast.

    - Get a check-up for yourself as well as your baby, to make sure you don't have any health issues that could affect lactation, like thyroid problems or retained placenta.

    Okay, that's all I can think of right now. Keep us posted!
    Karen
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  4. #14
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    20,865

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    Excellent advice from the PPs. I strongly suggest reading through that excellent link from LLLKaren- it explains why we all think it so unlikely that a mom could produce only "foremilk".

    Just wanted to add in- has your LO been tested for anemia? I have read that iron deficiency can impact growth.
    Coolest thing my big girl said recently: "How can you tell the world is moving when you are standing on it?"
    Coolest thing my little girl sang recently: "I love dat one-two pupples!"

  5. #15

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    Hi all, I’m sorry for not getting back earlier and I’m going to try to answer everyone’s questions.

    April: I am not sure of anything anymore is how I feel. I’m pretty sure I have an overabundance of foremilk as opposed to hindmilk. There was one time back when she was still a newborn that I was able to hand express an ounce from both boobs combined and I let it sit in the fridge for my toddler the next morning. There was a very thin layer of fatty content floating on the top, but very little, then again it was only an ounce. Some days I have a lot of milk, some days I don’t. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong there.

    I went to the “Pumping and Milk Storage” and could not find a how-to link =( If it’s not too much trouble can you post a link for the breast compressions post?

    My pump is over a year old, so that could very well be the problem with that one. The medela one is even older! However I had used the hospital grade pump and did not get much more.

    Melissa: Thank you for the advice on removing dairy. I think it may be a possibility. Yesterday I had about 4 oz’s of milk… maybe? So not much. I also didn’t have any in any other foods. Her poo was less green this morning. That may be it! I’ll continue doing an elimination diet to test it out. Thank you. =)

    Karen: Thank you for the helpful link! Based off of that image on that site, my milk is mostly that thin blueish kind. I rarely see it look like thick, white milk and based off of that article means I do not have enough fat content in any of my milk. (I’m assuming?) How would I solve that issue? A specific type of diet?

    In regards to her weight gain, that is correct. Birth: 7.5lbs – 2 months: ~9lbs – 4 months: 12.7lbs – 6 months: 11.2lbs Today (Approx. 6.5m): 11.6lbs

    She’s always had green stools, on the rare occasion they turn greenish-yellow with more seedy fat content in them.

    No surgery/injury, I recently got tested for hypo/hyperthyroidism and anemia and have neither; I don’t believe I have diabetes, but I’ve never been tested. I wouldn’t think I would have it though. After she was born I started the minipill but stopped using it after 2 months. That type of pill has no hormones in it supposedly.

    FTT was diagnosed based off of –only- weight. She is doing great developmentally. Babbling, rolling, not sitting up by herself yet but she’s already trying to crawl. The specialist is a gastroenterologist.

    I honestly didn’t know she could have had an allergy to something I ate until yesterday. My LC told me that it was a foremilk imbalance and that is why she was colicky, green stools and bum rash. There have been no respiratory problems at all that have been diagnosed BUT she did have two occasions where she stopped breathing. The first time I caught her with blue lips, no breathing and she looked dead. Scariest experience of my life… I shook her body like I was trying to warm her up real fast and it worked with whatever it was. The dr told us that they couldn’t see any issues with her, did no testing whatsoever but said I had caught her in the middle of her dying from SIDS. We bought an Angelcare monitoring system after that and whenever I am not actively watching her she is on it. There was a second time it happened in the middle of the night, the alarm went off, I jumped out of bed and picked her up immediately. I didn’t double check to see if she was breathing, I just assumed the monitor would be correct. I went to the doctor, again no testing whatsoever, and they dumbed it down to the monitor being faulty including all items from the manufacturer. This was back when she was 2 and 3 months old. There hasn’t been an issue since then.

    She has been asking to eat every 1.5 to 2 hours since a couple weeks ago. I have been having issues on and off with a large amount of milk and then almost no milk at all. Only since my surgery I have been having about 2 feedings a day that I cannot provide because I just don’t have any milk??? I’ll try to hand express and there’s nothing. She’ll fuss, scream, claw at my breasts and I just sit there a crying mess not knowing what to do for her grumbling tummy. And yes her stomach grumbles a few times a day since this past Thursday. With her being in FTT I cannot stand the thought of her skipping out on meals. I’ve been overloading on oatmeal and have started taking fenugreek again. The milk production seems to flip-flop all the time. There are times when I have an overabundance and other times where I have none whatsoever. Is there anyway I can correct this? I’m sorry if this seems flip-floppy but it changes all the time.

    Thank you for all of your advice, I really appreciate how in-depth you are getting and helping me out…

    Mommal: She hasn’t been tested for anemia since birth, I’ll have to get her tested again!

  6. #16

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    I want to clarify something that I think I'm saying wrong. When I say I have a lot of milk, it's of foremilk... or the skim milk as opposed to the fat content that is needed. I will have enough milk to fill her belly on some days and on others there will be enough for most meals but on other days about 1-2 meals there's none. Since the surgery there's been more days where I cannot provide enough. Hope I'm not confusing everyone...

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    278

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    Human milk is comprised of 4.5% fat. A thin layer of cream when the milk separates is normal. I would not block feed if there is any hint of an indication you do not actively have oversupply. If she is draining the breast you do not need to block feed. When I did block feeding it was because my baby was choking and gagging on my letdown and the other side would literally spray across the room. Also he was full on like half a breast, never took both till recently.

    It sounds like allergy. The thing is I never consumed milk other than half n half in my coffee. Things like cheese, butter, sour cream, even baked goods all cause reaction in some babies. I could not eat anything processed as it all has whey or casein. Dairy elim is hard but worth it.
    Mama to five beautiful kids- 9, 8, 3, 2 and currently nursing our new baby girl born 1/20/2013


    "It should not be necessary to tell reasonably intelligent mammals to suckle and not dismember their neonates." ~Susan Blustein

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Maryland
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    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    There are a few things in your posts that make me think of reflux. Sometimes really severe reflux can cause breathing problems. It can also cause a drop in weight, desire to nurse frequently, poor sleep. Hopefully the GI specialist can give you some more insight on that too. Dairy could be a possibility too, but sometimes the reflux and the dairy intolerance happen at the same time.
    Beth

    Exclusively pumped for Lance Oct 07
    Nursed until just before he turned 3 Levi Oct 09

    Do you have extra milk? Consider donating!
    http://www.hmbana.org/:

    "So I was welcomed by the consolations of human milk; but it was not my mother or my nurses who made any decision to fill their breasts, but you who through them gave me infant food, in accordance with your ordinance and the riches which are distributed deep in the natural order." -St Augustine

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    278

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    Quote Originally Posted by @llli*Samiha View Post
    There are a few things in your posts that make me think of reflux. Sometimes really severe reflux can cause breathing problems. It can also cause a drop in weight, desire to nurse frequently, poor sleep. Hopefully the GI specialist can give you some more insight on that too. Dairy could be a possibility too, but sometimes the reflux and the dairy intolerance happen at the same time.
    Yes I agree 100%!
    Mama to five beautiful kids- 9, 8, 3, 2 and currently nursing our new baby girl born 1/20/2013


    "It should not be necessary to tell reasonably intelligent mammals to suckle and not dismember their neonates." ~Susan Blustein

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    10,440

    Default Re: Please help if you can... :(

    Way at the beginning of my EPing journey, I noticed that about my milk too...it didn't seem to have a lot of fat in it. I think two things were at play
    1) oversupply
    2) milk is made appropriate for baby's age. Perhaps the types of fatty acids are different and thus it doesn't look fatty....but babies do well on it.

    I think, after what you write, a discussion with a second ped regarding reflux and allergies may be in order. Our first ped totally dismissed my concerns about our first child, and it turned out he had bad reflux; looking back, he probably had a dairy thing too. One of his brothers wasbo sensitive to dairy I had to cut casein and whey even. A quarter cup of milk would make that kid scream and cry and have green stool.
    Susan
    Mama to my all-natural boys: Ian, 9-4-04, 11.5 lbs; Colton, 11-7-06, 9 lbs, in the water; Logan, 12-8-08, 9 lbs; Gavin, 1-18-11, 9 lbs; and an angel 1-15-06
    18+ months and for Gavin, born with an incomplete cleft lip and incomplete posterior cleft palate
    Sealed for time and eternity, 7-7-93
    Always babywearing, cosleeping and cloth diapering. Living with oppositional defiant disorder and ADHD. Ask me about cloth diapering and sewing your own diapers!

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