Scalded breastmilk storage guidelines?

[@llli*lambypie]

I read the entire thread on scalding breastmilk due to excess lipase, and didn't find specific guidelines for how to scald or how this effects storage timing, etc.

My lactation consultant at the hospital told me to scald in a pan, over low heat until the milk forms bubbles around the edge, just like I would do if scalding regular cows milk for a recipe, then pour it into a storage container and store immediately in the fridge. The milk doesn't seem to have the same foul smell/taste that it had before I was doing this, so it seems to work ok. However: What are the guidelines for how long scalded milk can be stored in the refrigerator or freezer, or how long it can be out before being used? For instance, if I'm taking a bottle of breastmilk with me and will be out only a short time, how long will the milk stay good without ice/refrigeration? If I've scalded and stored it, how long will it stay good in the fridge? Am I even scalding it right??

I'm kind of at my wits end here, baby #4 was born 8/31 (his next in age brother is 13!) was tongue tied, didn't find out for 3 days until he had lost almost an entire pound!! Got it clipped at six days (stupid weekend and holiday they wouldn't do the clip), and he is still having real trouble breastfeeding, doesn't latch well, and doesn't seem to suckle strongly, my supply stinks (pumping 8 times a day, still not making milk like I did in the past with my other three), and now this lipase thing means I had to throw away a ton of milk! I'm ready to throw in the towel....

Karin

[@llli*aprilsmagic]

Pumping stinks. I have to EP for my fourth, who has a cleft palate.

Regarding the scalding. You can do it that way, but most of us use a bottle warmer because it's a bit easier.

There is, to my knowledge, no research specificallybon what you are asking. I try to only feed fresh milk. If I have to use frozen, I actually mix it with fresh to minimize any "damage" from the frozen and scalding processes (I also have lipase). I do tend to treat it like I do fresh, but I do tend to not leave bottles out longer than absolutely necessary because that might speed up the lipase action in my fresh milk. However, I often take bottles on errands, and it's been fine; we might be gone for 3-6 hours. I have a cooler made by Playtex I carry things in if I'll be gone for some hours.

Don't toss the milk! You can use it later for cooking baby food.

What you should do is test your lipase. Some moms find they can let it stand for 24 hours before it goes bad. That's my milk. So I pump and feed fresh and only scald any overage for the freezer. If it's less time, you might have to scald...or try feezibg it, as the freezer will slow the enzyme, and ipif you will be using it soon, it might hold it off so you don't have to scald.

I feel your pain. I have four boys, I EP, my youngest is special needs and I have lipase. It's enough to make you crazy

[@llli*aprilsmagic]

Ack.. What is a greater concern, though, is your low supply. What kind of pump? How often? How long? Total minutes? how much production? Have you been sized for correct horn size? Are you using compressions? Are you pumping at night? that sort of thin

[@llli*mtmama]

sorry to hear about the tongue tie pumping, and lipase!

i noticed my milk tasted off when i first started pumping with my lo, it seemed to "turn" after just a few hours in the fridge. when i went back to work i was scalding after every time i pumped i checked the taste of my milk again after a few weeks and noticed it was better. i give UNscalded milk to my son when he goes to daycare but scald when i freeze. so i pump at work and those bottles are used for the next day. if i start to have extra or want to rotate the milk in my freezer, i scald and this is the tecnique i use

... it rocks! (well, as much as scalding your milk can rock ) soo easy. i just got a bottle warmer and took my kitchen thermometer and i was good to go. (i actually use one of those kitchen thermometers with the probe, it beeps when it reaches the right temp)

[@llli*lambypie]

Ack.. What is a greater concern, though, is your low supply. What kind of pump? How often? How long? Total minutes? how much production? Have you been sized for correct horn size? Are you using compressions? Are you pumping at night? that sort of thin

I am using a Medela Symphony I have rented from the lactation consultants in the hospital. As far as I know the horns are fine for me, the consultants gave me two sizes. What I'm doing: I try to breastfeed him a little at every feeding, just so he keeps trying. Then I bottle feed him, soothe him to sleep or at least to a point where I can put him down while I get on the pumping bra and I pump for at least 15 minutes. Sometimes its an hour from when I start the feeding by the time I get to the pumping, just because I can't get him down. On average I get around 1 or 1.5 ounces (Mostly from the right breast, the left breast rarely gives more than .5 ounces). I have been using compressions for the last week or so, it seems to be increasing what I can get out, but not by a lot. I was pumping at night, but a couple of weeks ago the LC told me to try to get more sleep, so if Finn sleeps from 12-5 or 6 I should sleep too. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't, and he had been at least working on the breast from around 3, off and on until 7 or 8.

Yesterday (Tuesday), Finn seemed to be latching on, and I seemed to have enough milk that he was really working at the breast and I could feel full and feel the letdown in the wee hours, Tuesday afternoon my breasts were firm at the outer curves and I felt 'full' all afternoon and pumped over 2 ounces after Finn nursed at the breast for around 15 minutes, the longest he's done in weeks. Then today, breasts were basically empty in the wee hours, and I've had soft, not full breasts all day.

I've been taking Motherlove More Milk Plus (though I ran out a couple of days ago and haven't had a chance to get more) as well as fenugreek capsules. I've also been eating oatmeal most mornings. I'm about to go eat a bunch of roasted garlic, because one of my books says babies stay at the breast longer when mom eats garlic...anything is worth a shot at this point.

I just bought the Making More Milk book, which came today but I haven't had a chance to read it.

Also, I'm 44....it has been mentioned that maybe age plays a part in this.
I appreciate any advice you've got!
Karin

[@llli*aprilsmagic]

Yes, age can play a factor in this. I have heard of moms who successfully nursed in their 20's and 30's and had trouble when they were in their 40's without the complication of a baby who isn't terribly effective at the breast and needed to supplement, which is totally OK. But there are some things you can do to help yourself out and make the most you can of the situation.

Do read that book. There's a lot of great information in there.

That's a good pump. I use one myself every day. You can check the horn size by looking at a chart on Medela's website; however, I must say that sometimes, the chart isn't right. By chart, I should be in a 27, but a 30 still wasn't right, and a 36 is where I ended up.

Shoot for 120 minutes over the course of the day. 15 minutes means you MUST be pumping at least 8 times a day, i.e., milk being removed, either by baby or by pump.

While sleep is good....there is something to be said for that prolactin boost you get by pumping around 2-3 AM. So you could try doing a pumping then and giving it some time, like a week, and see how your supply goes. When I have a slump, I get up to pump at night. And it always pays me back by boosting my supply.

Try some herbs, like you are doing. The book has a lot of suggestions for herbs that you can try. I've never heard of the garlic thing. Can't hurt though.

Besides the pumping...try giving the supplement via SNS instead of via bottle. I prefer the Lact-Aid myself to the Medela SNS, but that way, your baby is at the breast, he is getting rewarded for trying, and you have the satisfaction of nursing versus messing with a bottle. I know it takes like 4 hands to use an SNS, but tape it down, and the Lact-Aid can stay in place all day long, and you just change the bags out (which you can wear under your clothes). Also, while baby is nursing, try pumping the other side. Awkward, yes, but if you have a hands free bra, use it to hold the bottle. The double stimulation might help your supply.

It is normal for a mother's supply to even out and to not feel full after a few weeks, so, if you are producing enough milk, it's OK (but it does not sound like your production is terrific; sounds like you are probably getting about 16 oz every 24 hours). I can sit down and pump 6 oz from one side and didn't feel full

The big key to milk production is to empty your breasts as much and as often as possible.

The thing I have noticed with pumping is that it takes forever to see a change. When I was nursing, I noticed changes in supply within 24 hours. I just recently hit a bad slump while EPing, and it took almost 2 weeks to get through it. A pump just isn't as good as a baby. So keep nursing the baby as much as you can. And don't quit too soon! There's a mom here who started with almost nothing for her baby and is now pumping all he needs every day! It can be done!

[@llli*lambypie]

Thanks Susan, encouragement is worth so much at this point. I've been at this for over four weeks now and I'm just not seeing a consistent change. I keep holding out hope that the magical 6 week mark everyone talks about will see some positive change so I know there's still a chance this can work. It would be sad to not be able to nurse this one after having nursed all three others so successfully.

So in terms of total pumping time, if I'm aiming for 120 minutes, is there anything wrong with dividing that up over less feedings? I had always heard it wasn't the amount of time you pump, but that you're emptying the breast--so I was told to pump and compress for 15-20 minutes or until 5 minutes after I stop seeing drops of milk falling into the cups? It would definitely go a long way for my sanity to be able to say pump for 30-40 minutes four times a day, and divide that up over time so the last pumping (or first depending on how you look at it) is at 2-3 AM.

I have an sns, I think mine is Medela, where do you get the other? I have a really hard time using it at all, I can't get Finn on the breast with the tube taped on, and he will usually not let me poke the tube in once he's on when I do get him on. It really does feel like i need four hands when I try using that, which is why I havent used it often.

Karin

[@llli*aprilsmagic]

At this point in time, while your are establishing your supply, unfortunately, NO, you MUST pump every 2-3 hours around the clock, which is about 8-12 times a day. While it does make you nuts, it pays you back later, as it gives you enough prolactin receptors for when you do cut back. Cut back too soon, you don't develop the prolactin receptorsnto their full extent, and you do not maximize your supply, and then you risk cutting your supply when you do drop sessions.

Most EPing or combo moms actually hit a wall at 6 weeks. Every EPing mom I talk to says it gets harder at 6 weeks (that growth spurt), 3 months, 6 months and then almost ALL pumping moms hit a wall at 9-ish months, where it is difficult to keep supply up and morale is low. But... If you can, nurse.

I got the Lact-Aid from the manufacturer, and a google search will find them for you.

This will sound weird, but will baby latch better with a nipple shield? You can hide the tubing inside of it.