I have analyzed this over and again because we plan on one more baby and I don't want it to happen again. I do have pcos and the LC thought I would just have low supply but she was wrong :) I actually had oversupply for the first 6 months!
DS it took a good couple of days and never came in enough to have him gain weight when EBF even though we nursed 24/7 and he had no formula until 3.5 weeks old:shrug traumatic labour and delivery at 43weeks and some other issues. But DD my milk came in with 24hrs. She was at birthweight by day 3. Have you seen this? No need for a "small bottle of formula" in my opinion (unless there are medical issues). The first days when your milk is coming in their stomach is so much tinier than those bottles of formula.
Mine came in somewhere between 4-5 days (I was still in the hospital and the nurse actually showed me it was in, since I never felt engorged). I just nursed and nursed my baby. I was somewhat "lucky" in that my baby was also in the nicu for 5 days, so they were measuring weight and urine output. They were VERY pushy about nursing him on a 2-3 hour (max) schedule, and there was a time when he didn't want to eat that they told me they were going to have to put a feeding tube down his nose--but we managed to fend them off long enough to where he was hungry again.
I think they just like to practice nursing and get a few drops of colostrum the first few days. :shrug
mtmama said:darwininthesun saidQuote:
you are making colostrum, is in not as though you are "dry". i don't personally like the term"milk coming in" because it leaves the impression that the baby is not getting anything.
yes yes and yes again. If I could have one wish, it would be that the term "milk coming in" be erased from breastfeeding language. Oh, ....and world peace. ;)Quote:
I think they just like to practice nursing and get a few drops of colostrum the first few days
How in the world did babies survive all those thousands of years without formula if it typically takes several days for there to be ‘enough’ milk?
I was just reading about this today in the book An Introduction to Biological Nurturing by Suzanne Colson, RM, Phd. Here is some of what she says on this matter: “The fear that many mothers experience concerning milk insufficiency can be aggravated by well-intentioned, but erroneous information they receive about how their milk will “come in” on the third postnatal day. Physiologically, this appears to be incorrect as the milk arrived during pregnancy. On or around the third postnatal day, it is only the milk volume that increases to meet baby’s increasing needs. Initially, babies only require small, frequent amounts of colostrum, which is the first milk. It is an advantage that there is not copious milk supply in the first days, as these frequent but short feeds help the baby organize sucking and swallowing with breathing.”
She continues: “The research findings indicate that initially it is lots of baby holding and breast emptying that regulates maternal milk supply, and we need to make that explicit to mothers. When starting out with breastfeeding, one feed often blends into the next. Many mothers say they cannot put their baby down. We need to tell mothers this is normal. Mothers often think that because the baby cries when they put him down, they have not got enough milk. That is usually a misinterpretation. The baby cries when they put him down because he is no longer in the right place.”
(Colson, p 32.)
Supplementation is sometimes actually needed in the very early days. But this is not the norm. It is rare. Formula is without a doubt regularly given to babies unnecessarily-and this has health consequences! Even a baby testing for high bilirubins does not necessarily mean supplementation is necessary. If your concern is that your number 3 will be jaundiced, I suggest you do some more research. You sould start with Dr. Jack Newman on the subject of jaundice and the breastfed baby. http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/conte...gename=doc-B-J
I am not anti-formula. But I am very against formula being given to babies unnecessarily. Formula given in the very early days can be very destructive to the normal preparation of the digestive system. Not to mention the possible consequences to latch etc. of bottle feeding. And I am very, very against mothers being given the false impression that it is a common occurrence that a typical newborn is born starving (not true, the are born very well fed) or that newborns will require formula because mom is somehow inadequate to give their babies what they need. This infuriates me. It makes absolutely no sense from a biological standpoint, and this myth is a major undermining factor that destroys a breastfeeding mother’s confidence. It drives me crazy.
edit: just saw your post amysmom. I am glad my overlong post was helpful! I guess you can tell I am a bit passionate about this subject. Yes of course you did not 'do wrong' by your babies! In fact I think you should be so really proud of finding the determination to nurse your babies when those early days were so difficult and stressful.
BTW here is my personal story: Baby number one was born 3 and a half weeks early, long labor with lots of interventions and meds, culminating in a c-section. Long separation after birth and many other factors made initiating breastfeeding very very difficult. He was born 6.13 and went down to 6 pounds. He had visible jaundice although never tested. Breastfeeding was a horror, terribly painful latch, and even partial breast refusal. I did not begin to feel any fullness until late on day 6. Baby was closely monitored in hospital and after. And NO ONE EVER-no doctor, no nurses, not the lactation consultant I finally went to see-ever suggested we should supplement. I am thankful for this, because my confidence was so shot by the early struggles I likely would have given up then and there.
Baby 2 was born in a different hospital. Scheduled c-section at term, baby with me within an hour after birth, birth weight over 8 and a half pounds, not much weight loss, breastfeeding went awesome from the beginning. Again, we were both closely monitored in the hospital. And I was told on numerous occasions, by several different nurses, that I did not have enough milk, and that baby was ‘hungry’ and needed formula. Finally I told them to get a doctor in there to write a prescription for the formula or else shut up about it. (I was nicer about it but that is what I was thinking) Of course, no doctor ever came. My baby was loud-born with a great set of lungs-seriously, the whole OR was in shock when he started up like a siren right after being born-and when he was not nursing or sleeping he was howling. I am convinced that is why they thought he was hungry and wanted my perfectly healthy, well feeding baby to have formula. At 5 he is still amazingly loud when he wants to be.
Oh and when did I start to feel full with number 2? I can’t say. I had learned to nurse so frequently that I never had the overfull breasts and engorgement I had with baby number one. I imagine it was day 4 or 5, certainly after we got out of the hospital.
I didn't feel the fullness of my milk until days 5 and 4 with Shiloh and Joey respectively. Shiloh was in the special care nursery on supplemental O2 and was getting IV fluids. I was able to nurse him when he was 36hrs old. It was a rough start. I gave him formula, trying to get him to stop crying, because he had to be under the lights on his back, unswaddled. DH had gone home and I was all by myself. CRYING. It made him sooooo pissy because I stretched his tummy out and then put him back to the breast for colostrum. He was MAD. He was 9.5# and dropped down to 8.6 and was back up to 10.2 at his 2wk check up.
I never gave Joey ANYTHING but me. She was 7.15 and dropped to 6.14. Never supplemented, just nursed nursed nursed. She was 8.2 at her 2wk check up.
Put that baby on and leave baby there ;) That will bring your milk in faster than anything else. I think the best thing you can do is get out of the hospital as fast as you can, or somehow keep the nurses out if they are making you worry, and nurse all.the.time.
FWIW, I never had full-on engorgement ever again with any subsequent baby after the first. I had some weird engorgement (tail of Spence) happen, but it wasn't ever like it was the first time. Had I not known better, I would have thought I didn't have enough. The worst was actuall this last time, as I was pumping and could see what was going on, and it really was barely enough for a few panic-stricken days. But I let those two nursing babies nurse as much as they wanted and for as long as they wanted, and one never lost any weight and had gained weight by the time he was a couple days old, and the other lost like 1 oz. That one was a crier; if I hadn't known what to do, I'd have given him a top-off bottle.
We even fed baby #4 colostrum via a syringe so none would be lost, but...and here's why they cry...they have a suck instinct. So even though he couldn't really nurse and found it a frustrating situation, he wanted to. And the syringe feeding fed him but did not feed the instinct. So....the upshot I learned....just nurse from the get go, and if baby is crying, it is from the instinct to nurse, so nurse. See ;)
The jaundice thing...mine all got kind of yellow. :shrug I know "treatment" depends on severity. We opted to just nurse more and have baby sit near a window.
You didn't do anythng wrong. When you know more, you do differently the next time. Make sense?