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  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 11:24 AM
    Ok, so you are the real expert around here! Ok, I am not sure I understand the questions but here goes: Do you mean you pump 7 times a day or baby only eats 7 times a day? I would suggest nursing baby more often than 7 times a day, and some nursing sessions can be without supplement if you like and baby agrees. Pumping: Milk production is well established, and some reliable sources suggest that after week 6, IF milk production is adequate, ok to drop to 6 pump sessions per day from 8-10. This is for moms who are exclusively pumping-baby not nursing at all. So with that in mind, I think you can adjust your pumping frequency as seems appropriate for your situation. Go by how you feel. Be careful to avoid lots of fullness between sessions as a full breast sends the signal that reduces milk production. Be careful to monitor baby for signs they are not getting enough.
    8 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 11:11 AM
    Did any of the people who watched baby nurse think there was a nursing issue? I guess I am wondering if this is more a (baby) personality problem or possibly some other health issue, than a breastfeeding problem. If I understand correctly, baby is gaining, and baby is capable of having calm nursing sessions at night, and even occasionally for 5 nursing sessions in a row. There is really no reason that a baby who can nurse well some of the time should not be able to nurse well all the time. And yet, many and probably most babies do NOT nurse well all the time, and get fussy, scream, cry, won't latch, clamp, etc. at some sessions, even daily. Most of the time, this is not often enough to be a concern, and mom can calm baby another way and try to nurse again later. But some babies, the issues happens so frequently there is more the concern baby will not nurse enough to get enough. The health issue might be something that causes pain or discomfort some of the time. A baby has to engage a lot of anatomy in order to nurse. So pain or tightness is the jaw or neck, headache, earache, gum pain, even not liking the position because an arm or something gets pinched or leaned on, as well as gastrointestinal discomfort, and probably many other things, can cause issues. You have seen lots of helpers, so I assume someone has discussed if maybe seeing a chiropractor, or someone who practices cranial sacral therapy or bowen (maybe bowin? Can't remember) therapy, might be...
    7 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 10:55 AM
    Hi, Wonderful if all supplements are your own milk, as this indicates you make at least enough milk for baby, and possibly more. So that means the issue (if there is an issue) with weight gain, it is about milk transfer and not milk production. But as far as their affect on breastfeeding, supplements are supplements whether formula or moms milk, they are food baby is getting aside from what baby can get at the breast. If a baby does not actually need them, or does not need as much as they are getting, they are likely to cause baby to not nurse with normal frequency or as effectively as otherwise. How many feedings each day are via nursing and how much is baby getting by bottle? How often do you pump? What do you think of my reading of the weight checks which seem to suggest baby was gaining fine prior to supplements? Have you discussed using an at the breast supplementer (lactation aid) for supplements instead of a bottle? No bottle or nipple is like the breast, and any can cause breastfeeding issues, sucking issues, and even breast refusal. As far as I know there are no studies indicating the calma is any different in this regard, because the reasons bottles cause issues are complicated and not only about the shape of the nipple or what baby has to do to transfer milk. For this reason, when appropriate, an at the breast supplementer is considered a more breastfeeding supportive way to supplement a baby. If this cannot be done, then paced bottle feeding...
    6 replies | 212 view(s)
  • @llli*lettismom's Avatar
    Today, 10:35 AM
    As to feeding length, I don't worry about that for the most part. Once she gets let down, she will eat happily as long as the milk is flowing. She usually finishes both sides in under 10 minutes, but I know she gets enough if she seems sated and happy afterwards. Also, there's the aforementioned healthy weight gain. With breast compressions, I don't try to hold my whole breast. Even just pushing at the top, sides, etc. seems to disturb DD's latch. If I do it super gently, it doesn't seem to bother her, but then it doesn't seem to improve milk flow very much either. I'll keep working on it, though. The flanges do seem a bit large for me and I'm planning on buying a smaller size this week to see if that helps me let down with the pump. The lactation consultants were all board certified (2 of them with over 40 years experience) and observed her during a feeding. It was maybe 20 minutes though two of the times. Two times I didn't have a special appointment; once was at the pediatrician's office (I just asked to have their on-staff LC come in to observe) and the other time was at the end of a LLL meeting with the LC who was running the meeting. She observed the baby and tried to get her latched to no avail. I did have an hour long appointment with a LC once, but DD was VERY sleepy and actually ate without putting up a fight, so I just explained what she usually does. Should I get another appointment with someone else? I have tried feeding DD more frequently...
    7 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*rabbit7's Avatar
    Today, 09:14 AM
    in thinking about your suggestions we were thinking about letting him sleep tonight an wake when hungry... I typically pump at each feeding pumping 34ish oz a day. do you think I 'd be safe for both my milk production and baby's weight gain to skip a feed in the middle of the night. We are dropping his feeds to 3oz...seems to be satisfied with this. Should I up it a bit to compensate for only 7 feeds?
    8 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*jessica.holiga's Avatar
    Today, 08:57 AM
    I can't believe I have gotten to this point, but for this short work week (Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday ) have been able to consistently pump the 10.5 ounces she normally takes in a day. WOOOO!! That means that I am actually going to freeze an extra bottle - which is the first start to my freezer stash. I am really hoping that with this 4 day weekend, I can power nurse and pump to really solidify that output! The only recent changes I made were to start taking fenugreek seed instead of the capsules and my birth control shot wearing off completely - so who knows if it was one of those that affected it or something else, but I am so glad my body has finally listened to what I have been telling it to do ;) In regards to maddieb's response - baby is different everyday. If she takes a long nap in the morning, then she will usually only use 2 3.5 oz bottles while I'm gone. But if she doesn't, then she typically wants to eat around 930, 1130, 130 and 330. So my caregivers - thankfully mostly family - have been really good about holding her off at that last time she wants to eat. That is why they feel like she could use more on some of the days. In the past I have never had any extra to send for that cushion in case she wants more, because with the low output anything that was left over was needed that next day. Hopefully now that my output is a little better, I will be able to actually have that extra bottle in the fridge for those just in case times. So I guess my...
    6 replies | 435 view(s)
  • @llli*rabbit7's Avatar
    Today, 08:48 AM
    thank you for your encouragement! I will try lessening the amt of milk given at feeds and see what happens...I often wonder how he lived those 1st 5 weeks as well...I think he lived on catching my let downs. he was weighed at 2 days past discharge. at that point he gained 1/2 oz so our pediatrician said we were on our way and ther was no need for a 10 day check ( he was relying on the fact that I have EB 6 other children) Unfortuately, this was very bad advice! My baby seems to only respond to milk already flowing. I reduced the sns tube to the smallest size
    8 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*mominstress's Avatar
    Today, 08:42 AM
    just to be clear I am expressing milk and feeding that via bottle. We visited lactation consultant she mentioned my baby has high palate and week sucking reflex, I can also mention when I feed via bottle I need to hold her cheek on 1 side so that she can create vaccum for sucking. We use Medela Calma bottle which require baby to suck in order to feed. We are visiting another lactation consultant though she ruled out tongue tie and my baby can stick out tongue from mouth. Any suggestions?
    6 replies | 212 view(s)
  • @llli*bsua65's Avatar
    Today, 07:35 AM
    You mention pain, and I'm aware that by year 3 you have probably explored most options to nurse pain free, but is pain free nursing something maybe folks on here can help with? As for milk and meds, it is scary! But... milk is different to blood so transfer risk is lower in feeding than in pregnancy. Maybe look at the 'why' of it being safe... Inertia would be feel less safe that molecular size meaning it is too big to pass through (if that's the case etc). Dr Hale really is an excellent resource for whys and levels of safety no just blanket yes or no's.
    6 replies | 137 view(s)
  • @llli*bsua65's Avatar
    Today, 07:00 AM
    I wanted to clarify I didn't mean lengthening times between feedings either, more that if she is anxious/refusing not to force it! Have you tried the reverse and offering more but with the proviso that if she isn't interested move on to something else. Stress on your part can inhibit let down too, so I know it's easier said than done but try to relax. I know mamas that gave made feeding into a game by squinting milk at baby, or going topless with a baby in a carrier just so they get used to breasts being there without pressure to eat.
    7 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*mommal's Avatar
    Today, 06:30 AM
    Welcome to the forum! It's not too late to start nursing, but when you have a baby who has been trained to bottle-feed, there are no guarantees when it comes to getting your baby back to the breast. However, I think you have a better than usual shot at giving up bottles because your baby will latch. That is excellent, and puts you way ahead of moms whose babies have forgotten how to latch or refuse to latch at all. Here's what I would do: 1. Offer the breast frequently. Offer at the beginning of feedings, when the baby is hungry. When the baby seems done with the breast, top up with the bottle, and then offer the breast again, so that the baby associates the feeling of being fed and comfortable with being at the breast rather than with finishing the bottle. 2. Use bottles in a breastfeeding-supportive manner, see http://kellymom.com/bf/pumpingmoms/feeding-tools/bottle-feeding/ 3. Continue to pump. Yes, I know it is exhausting considering all the other work you are doing!!! But hopefully a big effort now will allow you to phase out your relationship with the pump. 4. Keep the supplemental bottles small. I'm thinking 1-2 oz at a time. The more often the baby gets hungry, the more motivated he will be to take opportunities to nurse. It's typical for a baby this age to feed as much as 10-12 times a day or even more often. 5. See another LC, preferably one who is an IBCLC.
    1 replies | 65 view(s)
  • @llli*mommal's Avatar
    Today, 06:18 AM
    Nursing an older toddler has some unique challenges, and you are allowed to complain about them! The problem with complaining about them is that it's rare to find someone who has experienced anything similar or who has anything wise to say about them. Let go of the feeling that you are a failure or a bad mother. Night nursing is one of the most generous things you can do, and the fact that you have continued to night nurse despite sleep deprivation and your child's challenging nighttime behavior points to you being a good and generous mom. What would your ideal be, at this point? Would you like to night wean or would you simply like your LO to be better behaved when it comes to nursing?
    1 replies | 46 view(s)
  • @llli*elisabet's Avatar
    Today, 05:04 AM
    I had a really bad night, last night. Not sure if Im here for advise, just wanna tell my story:huh My 2year old daughter breastfeeds around the clock and she still wakes up to night-feed. I cant be bothered to night-wean cause I have tried it sooo many times and it just ends in screams and tears from both sides and I feel like a failure and a bad mother. Im always so gentle with her and love her to the end of the universe but during night time I get so frustrated and sometimes just wanna snap! :mad: I havent had a longer sleep then 3hours at a time in 2years and I feel like an old lady. The worst part about this is when she wakes she doesnt ask for boobie she fusses like a spoiled teenager and if the breast isnt there in 15sec she kicks and hits me and screams :yikes. Sometimes I just want her to ask nicely cause Im hurting my back and nipples for her.. Is that too much to ask for? I know first world problem, but still. She has the most excellent vocabulary but during the night she cant use her words. Im getting tired listening to her crying like a miniature dragon every night :( I feel like Im depressed after 8pm! Cause when she has a tantrum or just cries during the day Im so calm and loving. I know things will get better but it seems like some fairytale to me. Her father isnt allways there to help and if he even tries to settle her all hell brake loose, so we have just kept it this way. Sometimes I just want my body to my self but still I love breastfeeding...
    1 replies | 46 view(s)
  • @llli*poppy123's Avatar
    Today, 02:58 AM
    I've been exclusive pumping and bottle feeding my son since week1 due to sore nipple(left) and flat nipple (right). My milk came in on second day and so far it's enough for him. I was exhausted and desperate to feed him back then that's why we decided to bottle feed and pump. I wasn't told that pumping will be even more exhausting than breastfeeding. After a week or so I decided to have him on my breasts but haven't had much luck so far. He loves the fast flow of the bottle too much. We were using medela calma teat and changed to avent slow flow number 1. I'm also using nipple shield for both sides. I offer my breasts before each feed. If I'm lucky he'll feed for 5mins and latch off when flow is slow. I tried breast compression, it doesn't work every time. One feed will take an hour or longer since I have to offer breast, he will latch off or fall asleep when flow is slow, try to wake him up, doesn't wanna go on breast again and finally I will have to offer the bottle otherwise he will cry and cry. I try to pump 8 times a day, every 3 hour. I get around 100ml-140ml per session from both sides, 12-15mins each. I've seen a LC from LLL but honestly she hasn't been much help.
    1 replies | 65 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 12:48 AM
    I had not heard of trying to get a weighted feed to measure milk transfer while simultaneously giving supplements via an sns before. To me this sounds like it might be problematic, but I hasten to add I am NOT an IBCLC and of course I am not there with you and your baby so my take on the situation may be very flawed. Is this being done because baby will simply not nurse without the sns? Because then it would make sense to me, although I still see a problem with analyzing the data from that. OK, please check any of my suggestions with your LC. One idea is to keep giving baby supplements at most feedings but allow/encourage 'extra' nursing sessions with no sns. If baby will nurse without the sns, as far as I know, there is no reason to not do so, as long as baby is being supplemented enough at other feedings to get enough overall, see what I mean? When a typical baby nurses, it is not always for hunger and milk transfer varies quite a bit feed to feed anywhere from a fraction of an ounce to several ounces. If baby will not nurse without the sns, you can try any or all of the ideas for encouraging nursing in the Kellymom article I will link below. Babies nurse for comfort as well as food, so it is very possible baby will nurse even if baby is not getting milk or much milk. But, IF a baby is being fully fed with supplements (and it sounds as if your baby possibly is given the amount baby eats) then baby may simply not be interested in nursing or nursing...
    8 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*rabbit7's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:46 PM
    yes, the weigh ins are following use of sns...the lc is trying to determine whether he is taking in anything other than the supplement. at our 1st appt she did the weight check following a regular feeding and I don't think he took anything then either. I think you may be on t0 something about him depending on the sns....however if I were tto put him to breast at a feeding he would not get anything...any suggestions how to transition to this? While he is very alert, his sleep pattern is very disorganized as I have to wake him for a feeding, he tends fall asleep during the feeding only to be woken by the bottle (I give him 1 oz plus whatever he did not finish from the sns) we use this time to work on oral motor. Then he is wide awakw until about 45 before the next feeding. It is a frustrating pattern to be sure!He always cries when we finish the bottle like he wants more...but recovers quickly? I am so confused and frustrated...is there any hope to turn this around?
    8 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:13 PM
    I agree, yay for the nurse! 'Not really' (or 'not typically') is the correct answer. Finding time to eat and an extra hand to eat with is usually much more of the problem than WHAT to eat in these early weeks! Of course, it is always a good a idea for everyone (not just breastfeeding moms) to eat a reasonably balanced and healthy diet. But that can mean many different things and they all are fine for breastfeeding. Eat what you like and drink to thirst and you will probably be fine. If any issues are going to come from something you eat, you can deal with them IF they occur.
    2 replies | 94 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:06 PM
    Yes I do not know much about fennel either but I have seen it suggested for slow letdown in the Womanly Art of Breastfeeding. I don't think it is ever a good idea to try to lengthen times between feedings esp when baby is clearly cueing! I just meant, perhaps you are worrying overtly about length of feedings. Especailly since baby nurses frequently, each nursing session does not have to result in lots of milk transfer. The tip about the bath is about helping both mom and baby be more relaxed and playful and not so focused on milk transfer. It is one of many ideas for this, nursing when baby cues or even before cues, nursing when baby is sleepy or just waking, adjusting position to side lying or laid back, skin to skin, etc, are all ideas with the same idea in mind. They are not some magic cure that will work for everyone of every time, but sometimes finding one or two ideas to help both you and baby relax is very important. OK, I just want to be sure- these were IBCLCs, and these were a private appointment of an hour or more, you and baby were loo9ked at, a history taken, and a breastfeeding session was observed? Were these appts similar to what is described here? http://cwgenna.com/lconsult.html OK, I know what you mean. But there is no reason to grab the whole breast in a c or u hold and squeeze- a breast compression can simply mean gently pushing on the breast anywhere above the areola with a fingertip or two. ('above' meaning back from the areola- not...
    7 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*lettismom's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:48 PM
    She's gaining about 6 oz a week still, which I know is great. I'm just tired of every feeding being a fight. I tried waiting longer between feedings, but she shows active signs of hunger after 2 hours and will start to cry. The longer we wait, the more frantic she seems to be and the longer it takes to get her to eat. If she's especially hungry, that's often times when she won't latch even to begin with. Then it takes an hour or more to get her to eat when she finally just succumbs to exhaustion and hunger. She slept longer during one of her naps yesterday to the point that it had been 3 1/2 hours since she'd eaten. She panicked before I could even get her latched. I do end up just trying to settle her down and then offer again later. Eventually, I can get her to eat even if it's four or five hours later. As far as pressuring her to eat more goes, I was guilty of that in the beginning, but after a couple of weeks I realized she was just a fast eater and would let her be done when she seemed satisfied. I've tried breast compressions, but I think my boobs are too small. As soon as I compress, it seems to pull me out of her mouth. She's been seen by 3 lactation consultants and they all just seemed concerned. The only thing one of them suggested was to get in a bath with her and do skin to skin prior to feedings. I tried that and it seemed to have no effect at all. I've tried three different pumps (two different brands), all with the same results. I...
    7 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:47 PM
    Huh! Well that is a stumper and must be very frustrating for you and your helpers. Has your IBCLC conferred with other IBCLCs? For example on an online professional listserve like Lactnet or similar? OK...but the before and after check is being done without the sns...right? because I do not get the point of doing one with the sns???(There may be a reason that I do not understand... If baby is taking 4 ounces or even less with an sns, I would not be surprised to see no transfer from the breast, because maybe baby has learned to cheat the system and suck only from the sns?? Assuming the weighted feeds are without the sns, I do not understand how there can be no measurable transfer at the breast, yet you make milk, get milk when you pump, and baby appears to have no difficulty getting lots of milk from the sns??? I am no math wiz and I really do not understand metric units, but from what I understand a scale that is sensitive enough to take a before and after nursing weight check should be measuring even a tiny fraction of an ounce. So I am unclear if the LC means there is not enough transfer to count as a full feeding, (2 ounces or more) or if she means her scale literally is seeing no transfer at all? Have all these feedings felt like good feedings to you? I ask because I have heard of mothers whose babies ARE transferring milk (but not all that much) thinking baby is transferring 'nothing' because they are not being told how much because it is seen as too...
    8 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*mommal's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:41 PM
    The nurse actually answered your question pretty well. Aside from very large quantities of mercury-heavy fish and medium-large amounts of alcohol, there are no foods which nursing moms need to avoid. Babies tend to like spices in mom's diet, are not bothered by "gassy" foods, and don't mind moderate amounts of caffeine.
    2 replies | 94 view(s)
  • @llli*nola's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:53 PM
    Thank you for the help! I do know that most medications are safe, however, I am a bit scared because a medication I was told was safe to take while pregnant with my first child is now listed as not safe...I didn't end up taking it while pregnant but I considered it...so I don't really know how much I trust them saying its okay to take this while breastfeeding when maybe one day they will have a different opinion on it. I am taking my time with weaning...I am just putting up with the pain in the meantime since I don't want to wean abruptly and for me the stress of weaning ranks similar to the stress of the pain so really I'd rather do this for her.
    6 replies | 137 view(s)
  • @llli*rabbit7's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:35 PM
    we have been working with a new lc for about 2 weeks. each visit she weighs before and after nursing (exclusively with sns at this point) never has there been any measurable transfer. We nurse with sns 8x perday with approx 4 oz per feeding. He had a frenectomy b/c the dentist said while it was not an obvious tongue tie, we could improve tongue extension.
    8 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*soblessed's Avatar
    Yesterday, 06:04 PM
    I asked this question while I was in the hospital but the nurse did not seem to know how to answer my question and then said "not really" so I was wandering if you ladies had any input? Ive found more help here then anywhere else and i appreciate all the tips tricks and advise that yall have to offer. Also on a side note: I am feeding my little one on demand and its about every hour and a half right now but honestly for all the first time moms out there it does get better. Im a first time mom who never planned on bfeeding and I love it. Hang in there girls we can do it!
    2 replies | 94 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 05:21 PM
    I agree. A 2.5 month old is in a very different place than a 2.5 WEEK old, and may simply not need to nurse as often. the 8-12 nursing frequency suggestion is a general rule of thumb that seems to work for most babies. But there will always be outliers in both directions. For long sleep stretches, be aware of the things that MAY cause a baby to sleep longer than they otherwise would, and consequently may casue problems of baby missing feedings. These are, pacifiers, swaddling, and baby spending most of the night in a different room from mom. If any of these are happening, you could stop them and see if it makes a difference. If baby sleeps near you, is not swaddled nor given a pacifier for sleep, this long stretch is probably just normal for your baby. I agree no harm in encouraging a feed overnight especially for your own milk production going forward, but that does not mean this is needed. Also, sleep patterns change. So don't be surprised if baby starts waking more often at some point. It is hard to not compare babies! My oldest nursed every hour and my second one went 6 hours the night we got home from the hospital and scared the heck out of me. But not only are babies different, your body may be different. Not only milk production but also breast storage capacity can change baby to baby. For more on how the latter might affect feeding frequency, see: http://www.nancymohrbacher.com/blog/tag/infographics
    2 replies | 114 view(s)
  • @llli*bsua65's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:49 PM
    Breast compressions can help with slow letdown too and keep baby at breast. You say baby is gaining well... Are you able just to try and relax a bit and if she won't feed settling her other ways and then offering again a bit later? Is there a chance you just have a good supply and baby doesn't need to feed that often?
    7 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*bsua65's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:42 PM
    Everything sounds fine to me! Weight gain is fine, output is fine, and baby is content right? Tho if you are worried about the long sleep stretch you can always try to dream feed or wake them to feed... But honestly you may just want to rest as sleep patterns notoriously change and so it may not last!
    2 replies | 114 view(s)
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