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  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 04:58 AM
    I started another thread yesterday but essentially I am feeling really down and depressed and concerned as baby 1. is not efficient at extracting milk. We used to just supplement her with expressed milk or formula to top her up and support her weight gain 2. since 10 days ago, she refuses the bottle. She has had bottle since Day 1-2 (at the hospital). She was happy with it. Now she cries and screams as soon as she sees it. If she's in a good mood, she will just push her tongue out (defensively) and or leave it in her mouth but not suck. Yesterday I was so desperate I put it in her mouth and said "Please take it" - I felt bad after this, and anyway she still wouldn't. We've tried other feeding method eg. tube on breast and finger and she also cries and refuses. It seems that she only wants the breast now. She is on it most of the time and it's so exhausting for me and I'm very worried about her weight gain.
    0 replies | 0 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 04:36 AM
    I would suggest read the article I posted above, then call a few and get a feel for what their experience is, their process is, etc before booking a consult. Thank you. I don't mind paying of course, it's more the quality I care about. The weights are very wonky. Am I reading that correct? they indicate fairly fast gain up to 2 weeks, then actual loss!!!??? for the next two weeks, and then from 4 weeks to 6 weeks baby gained 3 pounds!!!????! Normal gain for this whole period (2 weeks to about 3-4 months) is average about one pound (or a little less) every 2 weeks. If baby really gained 3 pounds in 2 weeks, part of that may have been catch up, but it would overall indicate overfeeding. I believe the weight loss factor was incorrect, as the doctor's office didn't calibrate it properly. Therefore, I don't know how accurate these measurements are. However, that said, when she gained weight, she was bottlefed up to 120mL (4 ounces). She was weighed today and since 2 weeks, she has gained 0.63 pounds. Overfeeding is not some terrible thing, it routinely happens when a baby is bottle fed. For the breastfed baby and mom, the worst thing about overfeeding is it makes mom think she does not make enough milk when she actually does, or think baby cannot nurse normally, or makes mom think that a baby should behave like an over fed baby and not like a regular baby.
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 04:30 AM
    285-470 upped to 500-650 milliliters per bottle? a 500 milliliter bottle is 17 ounces! Or is this what baby was getting per day? Also, how much about do you pump when you pump if it is not after nursing? Pumping 50 mils after baby nurses sounds normal to me. That is a per day count Pumping not after nursing - depends - on a per day count I started around 300mL, now I think it is around 500mL (with a few BF sessions thrown in) Long as in how long? Generally it is normal for a baby to want to nurse long periods. Some nurse a long time and others nurse shorter. What I mean is long sessions are not necessarily indicative of a problem. When there is little milk, I feel she can stay there for hours, but she generally falls asleep and when I put her down she cries or wakes up and cries and wants to eat again.
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*djs.mom's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:46 PM
    Try nursing her when she is actually a sleep.Most of the time striking babies will eat when actually sleeping.
    2 replies | 50 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:56 PM
    Hi agnesd. Here is how strikes are defined as opposed to weaning. Stikes are sudden and weaning is gradual. Yes sometimes a strike is so severe baby does not nurse again. It happens, but that would still be a strike that led into weaning, rather than the typical gradual weaning process. So what you are describing sounds like a strike, absolutely. More evidence is that it started when baby was ill and then you became engorged. These are the kind of things that can "trigger' strikes even when they never did before. So I would suggest, think of this as a strike, and the most common outcome of a strike is that baby nurses again as long as they are gently encouraged to do so (and it can take time) and mom protects her milk production. Since you want to nurse your child again it makes sense to pump as you are doing and continue to offer to nurse as much as you like. It sounds to me that your child would also very much like to nurse again but something happened (and you may never know what) that has caused baby to not want to nurse or even feel unable to nurse, most likely entirely temporarily. Gently encouraging a child to nurse is not "pressure" or being selfish, I promise. Many times nursing comes again when baby is asleep, falling asleep or just awaking. There are many other tips to try. Try several things and then try them again. This excellent article explains many good ideas. http://kellymom.com/ages/newborn/nb-challenges/back-to-breast/ and here is more info on...
    2 replies | 50 view(s)
  • @llli*agnesd's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:04 PM
    Hi. I am a Japanese FTM living in Japan. My daughter, 20months, has not nursed for 4 days now. It started this thursday, a slightly funny, distracted day where dd did not really concentrate during any session during the day. Given that (plus the fact that on wednesday night she had a sudden fever and whenever she does she nurses like crazy if in the daytime and have looooong-co sleep -sessions all night at night) by evening my boobs were pretty hard( I am a very sloppy hand pumper and never have plugs due to wide ducts thus I rarely try to pump out of that) and I really wanted/needed her to suck it out, and she finally did! I was releived, happy, wonderfully tender-breasted, and at that point not realising at ALL that was going to be the last real session. That night, she did not latch on(I usually nurse her to sleep). She was upset and screamed throught the night. She kept shouting " Hold me!" "Nurse me!" and "Lie me to down!" ( in her own words) repeatedly, I attempted those three things over and over but she never latched on. Or go to sleep except like for a couple of minutes due to pure fatigue... Friday morning I had to BUY a pump - for the first time in my BF life at 20 MONTHS! my breasts were so hard I could not possibly hand pump. Plus dd requested endless " hold me"s so it was bad combination agony with my breast condition.That and she continued to strike( or what ever it is) that whole day. Saturday and Sunday, and today basically the same. I am shocked, sad,...
    2 replies | 50 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 12:08 PM
    It is normal for a two month old to nurse at least 10 times a day. Your baby's nursing pattern as far as frequency sounds entirely normal to me. In fact the night nursing is a little on the lower end of normal. Many babies wake more often than that at this age to nurse. Some IBCLCs charge an hourly rate and others charge a per consultation rate, but in the long run this amounts to the same thing. Again these are trained professionals who had to pay to be trained and educated and continue to pay to get the continuing education they need and the testing to remain certified. They have to carry insurance and have all the other overhead costs any other professional would have, even if they do home visits (do not have an office) they have many such costs. I would suggest read the article I posted above, then call a few and get a feel for what their experience is, their process is, etc before booking a consult. The weights are very wonky. Am I reading that correct? they indicate fairly fast gain up to 2 weeks, then actual loss!!!??? for the next two weeks, and then from 4 weeks to 6 weeks baby gained 3 pounds!!!????! Normal gain for this whole period (2 weeks to about 3-4 months) is average about one pound (or a little less) every 2 weeks. If baby really gained 3 pounds in 2 weeks, part of that may have been catch up, but it would overall indicate overfeeding. Overfeeding is not some terrible thing, it routinely happens when a baby is bottle fed. For the breastfed baby...
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:54 AM
    Ok real quick- 285-470 upped to 500-650 milliliters per bottle? a 500 milliliter bottle is 17 ounces! Or is this what baby was getting per day? Also, how much about do you pump when you pump if it is not after nursing? Pumping 50 mils after baby nurses sounds normal to me. Long as in how long? Generally it is normal for a baby to want to nurse long periods. Some nurse a long time and others nurse shorter. What I mean is long sessions are not necessarily indicative of a problem.
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:52 AM
    Thank you Maddie B. I will try to answer the questions: Birth: 7.19pounds 2 weeks: 7.9 pounds (although doctor's office could have this wrong) 4 weeks: slight weight loss 7.7 pounds 6 weeks: 10.58 pounds (during time of bottle feeding express milk or formula and upping amounts) Also, how many times a day (24 hours) does baby nurse currently? During the day, she nurses between 1.5 hours an 2.5 hours generally - and at night now she sleeps 4-5 hours and then 3 hours during the night. I would say she still nurses 10 times a day.
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:10 AM
    Ok, I know I asked lots of questions but I do need those answers to help more. I am still not hearing exactly how baby is gaining. It would help to know. I do not need whole weight gain history, just the highlights. I am particularly curious what the gain was when you were told baby was gaining poorly and to increase supplements. If you can use pounds and ounces for everything that would help but if not I will convert. Also, how many times a day (24 hours) does baby nurse currently? Is baby currently getting any supplements at all? It is unclear. Have you ever sat with an IBCLC or anyone else who knows how to do it, and had breastfeeding fully assessed? I think it is important this happen if at all possible. Here is info on what this would consist of: http://www.cwgenna.com/lconsult.html I would suggest perhaps not getting the lip tie treated without having an IBCLC assess things first and to help you with follow up after. If baby is latching better on a fuller breast, that could indicate a few issues but guiding you there is above my knowledge. However, it may be that in this case, the pumping is causing poor transfer due to the breast being less full from the pumping when baby nurses. Of course a baby should be able to nurse just fine on a soft breast, so again this need for a full breast to get a good latch indicates a problem that will need to be addressed. But in the meantime, perhaps try pumping only when you are fairly sure baby is down for a while, or...
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 10:10 AM
    First of all, thank you, MaddieB, I must admit I felt quite disheartened and reluctant to contact the LLL after that experience, so thank you for that. I will PM you separately and now respond to your post: Baby is 8 weeks Baby is gaining well according to the last 3 weigh ins (only once she dropped in weight) - BUT in the last times she was weighed, she was being fed formula by bottle as well as some BF Since 10 days or so ago, she has suddenly refused the bottle, and my only option now is to BF her. She even refuses expressed milk in a bottle. I have not weighed her since this time. Baby was getting bottles since Day 2 to 10 days ago. We didn't measure at the beginning but my records show me that in Week 3 she was receiving between 285-470mL by bottle with some intermitten BF. In Week 4, after the doctor told us we were underfeeding her, due to weight loss, we upped bottles to about 500-650. Since August 11 she has refused the bottle (she looks disgusted or spits the milk back out, or plays with it with her tongue - unless she is very hungry) - she has received 50-210 mL of expressed milk by bottle 1. How are you determining that your milk production is low?
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*anuha's Avatar
    Yesterday, 09:27 AM
    I have no personal experience of succesful night weaning (my first one didn't agree it was a good idea), but if I were to try it with my second baby (1yr 5 mths), I'd re-read some of Elizabeth Pantley's books. She has very gentle approaches. Here's a good review if you'd like more info before getting any.
    1 replies | 87 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:46 AM
    Hi bunnyears, I am sorry you are having this difficulty. First, an LLL leader, whether she is an IBCLC or not, should never be charging a breastfeeding mother who called her for help as an LLL Leader for talking to her. Ever. Many LLL Leaders are also IBCLC's and it can be hard sometimes to keep the two "hats" separate, but that is not your problem, it is hers. Please report this LLL Leader and whatever she said to you up the chain at LLL. If you cannot figure out how to do that (it is confusing and is different depending on where the person is) you can PM me and I can try to help you figure out where to go with complaints. Also please do not let this unfortunate encounter sour you on LLL Leaders OR IBCLCs. LLL Leaders are almost always going to be your best source for breastfeeding support and information. For the most part they are wonderful, dedicated people who sacrifice a lot to be Leaders and they do it because they have a passion for helping mothers and babies. A properly trained and educated IBCLC is usually going to be the best bet for a mom who is facing real, clinical breastfeeding barriers like ongoing latch pain or low milk production that is so severe the mom has considered/tried pumping and bottles instead of nursing. They are professionals and yes they will ask to be paid for their services like any other professional. But there are often ways to make it more affordable. Costs can vary quite a bit, many insurances cover services, and sometimes...
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:25 AM
    Background: Mother to two children. With this one, we've had latching issues from the start. At the hospital they recommended we bottle feed her. She was bottle fed from Day 2. At the beginning the pain was too intense from me. They suspected she might have lip tie, but no-one could confirm it. I contacted a local LLL leader but she wanted me to pay her to talk more (she is a ICLBC also) and I didn't know where to turn so I read a lot online, and also asked my MD for prescriptions. My baby is now no longer willing to take the bottle (any bottle) so I am having to EBF her. It feels hard as my milk supply is low. The doctor gave me a prescription of APNO although she should have told me that it has cortisone and I would have used it less. But I can now put her back on my breast, especially stressful as she won't take a bottle. Strategy: Domperidone 3-4 x 2 tablets, Fenugreek, Blessed Thistle, Mothers Milk, pumping after BF RISK:
    8 replies | 85 view(s)
  • @llli*anuha's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:23 AM
    Thanks for the book recommendation! Looks interesting. Will start reading today.
    13 replies | 980 view(s)
  • @llli*momteddy's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 04:08 PM
    I wanted to respond to this thread years later because I have the same issue with my 6 week old, this is the first post to respond in google search and I wanted others to have suggestions on how to improve the situation as it is super stressful: 1) APA recommends on demand feeding instead of scheduled feeding for the first 2 months. Which makes sense because you don't want to tamper with supply while your baby is going through those early growth spurts. 2) Frequent feedings can be a blessing in some respect. For one, most babies have some acid reflux. If LO has the full blown GERD, the treatment is to have shorter, frequent feedings. As far as supply is concerned, several methods like power pumping recommend mimicking growth spurt feeding as the best way to increase supply. And if your baby is gaining a lot, which mine was as well, he's getting the milk even if you feel like when you put him to breast there is nothing there to provide him. Try to relax about this, I've read that stress and not eating/drinking properly can affect supply but not sure to what extent. It's not helping if he's gaining. 3) To help with exhaustion, try side lying feeding. I only used it early mornings and late evenings because my LC said I should compress, and that position is not suitable for compression. Some people recommend co-sleeping. I didn't do that, tried to stay awake as long as possible and then put him in the bassinet. 4) Another tip for exhaustion is to have your...
    14 replies | 79270 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 03:44 PM
    Yes there are many misconceptions regarding healthy gain and growth and eating habits, and I have learned they crop up again and again even well past babyhood. I found the book My Child Won't Eat by Carlos Gonzalez very helpful in gaining a greater understanding of this subject.
    13 replies | 980 view(s)
  • @llli*djs.mom's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 03:06 PM
    The thing about the percentiles chart is? They are all within normal range. Someone has to be on the top and on the bottom for it to exist. If a child is in the 3rd percentile but stays there that's still normal. Sometimes falling in the charts can be of concern. But not always. Most EBF babies DO in fact start to slide on the percentiles chart as soon as the start to move. So the addition of rolling over and then crawling and then cruising can make it so that breastfed kids slide quite a bit but it's still normal and no cause for alarm.
    13 replies | 980 view(s)
  • @llli*nivilovely's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 01:17 PM
    Thanks for the response. I stopped pumping after every feeding. I just pump once in the morning after first feed and get 2 ounces. I just store that. Baby is nursing every 1.5 hours is this normal? I have more milk in the breast so he is not happy with the flow but he is ok to nurse. I think there is enough milk because he is good after a feed. Send turns his head away from breast after 10 mins of nursing. Initially I was feeding both breasts and then pump .5-1.5 ounce and use that for next feeding. Now I am ebf and hope it works out. My breasts are little uncomfortable in-between feedings but frequent feeding has helped a lot.
    2 replies | 197 view(s)
  • @llli*dustyrose124's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 11:45 AM
    My baby turned 7 weeks old today. His weight gain seems normal and I do not pump at all because I want the milk to stabilize and not produce more. I've followed what you said, however, I have another issue that has been a huge one and is affecting our household. My LO has much more than colic and no pediatrician is listening to me and really need help. Baby has been crying for more than 3 hours a day to a point where he started choking in his own cry. He didn't want me to feed him, rock him, nothing was working. He also throws up every feed (a lot and smells a bit). He hasn't pooped in 4 days so I haven't seen the green poop. Please help I'm worried that my baby is in so much pain and don't know what to do. He's ok probiotics and that's not helping either
    2 replies | 128 view(s)
  • @llli*butterfingers's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 10:25 AM
    Hi all, I am ready to night wean my 25 month old. She sleeps in a cot in her own room and I would like to take the sides off soon, I don't know whether to night wean at the same time as moving her to a bed or night wean first or what, happy for suggestions here! I do not wish to co sleep although this does happen occasionally at present. There is not enough room for a toddler bed in our room. In any case she sleeps fine in her own room and I am happy with the current arrangements. She is feeding usually once or twice in the night but occasionally more. She generally returns to sleep after a feed. Now. I have read methods of night weaning but they seem to involve reducing and or stopping feeding to sleep. The removal of nipple prior to becoming drowsy / falling asleep and that is fine. Except my daughter does not feed to sleep or even to being drowsy any more. She is always fully awake when I lay her in her cot and happily puts herself to sleep with no complaints. Same during the night except she may possibly be more sleepy but definitely still awake. So, how do I night wean?! I have thought of a gro clock type thing?? She is very averse to my OH at night and only wants me plus he would not have the patience to deal with her so I may have to do this alone! I do not want her to become distressed and would not be happy to leave her to cry. Any thoughts most welcome and appreciated.
    1 replies | 87 view(s)
  • @llli*anuha's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 10:25 AM
    This seems to be a really difficult concept for some health professionals. My son was in the lower percentiles but gaining steadily (straight line steadily). However, at a one year check up a health nurse told me that because he doesn't eat much solids (nursed a lot and was happy), he's in the lower percentiles. And of course I was then all stressed out about him not eating enough solids. At first round you just believe everything they say.
    13 replies | 980 view(s)
  • @llli*sylviamakela's Avatar
    August 20th, 2017, 02:13 AM
    Thank you ladies. I've used Reglan and then when it didn't work I switched to Domperidone. It does not cross the blood brain barrier, so is safe and causes no side effects. Reglan, however, does cross the BBB, and that is why there are so many bad side effects (psychological type side effects). If you were lucky enough to get a script for Dom, you should count yourself fortunate and keep going with it!
    6 replies | 15696 view(s)
  • @llli*djs.mom's Avatar
    August 19th, 2017, 11:55 PM
    I don't know if it's lipsase. Excess lipsase- the kind that is problematic usually smells like puke. And the baby won't take it. If your baby will take the milk? I don't think there is a problem. I wouldn't scald. BUT I think you need to try to carve out time every day to pump if you don't want to lose your supply. It can happen very quickly if you aren't removing milk regularly during the day. And your supply is still really vulnerable at the 3 month point. A freezer stash is meant to make up any shortfalls you have pumping milk you need every day to feed your baby while you are gone. Which for 8hrs is usually 8-12 ozs. So say you the 1st day that you leave for work you leave your baby 12oz from your freezer supply. And during that 1st day you only pump 10 oz. Your baby drinks all 12 that you leave. You'd leave your fresh milk for the next day and then supplement out of your freezer supply 2oz. There is no reasonable amount of freezer stash that will cover you simply not pumping every day. You will go thru 40-60oz of milk a week. I encourage you to work with your HR dept to determine how you can take pumping breaks. Which by law they have to give you. You do need to pump to maintain supply and it can't be sporadically.
    1 replies | 85 view(s)
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