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  • @llli*butterfingers's Avatar
    Today, 02:54 PM
    Hi and thanks for your responses. I looked at Elizabeth Pantley but her technique seems to involve the child learning not to nurse to sleep and this is not a situation I have so it didn't seem to fit. My ultimate goal would be for my daughter to not need me to comfort her at night at all routinely but I acknowledge this may be some time away!! So I suppose my more immediate goal is that her comfort does not need to involve the breast and therefore could be given by someone else, namely her father. She does not need to nurse to return to sleep but her desire is to nurse when she wakes and I guess she is pretty drowsy when she finishes. A week or so ago I went out for the evening and returned just after midnight to a screaming daughter with a stressed out daddy, she had been awake and mostly unhappy for the best part of two hours shouting mummy and milk. Not a situation I want to repeat but I would like the occasional night out. I guess I am weaning her from mummy rather than nursing? But I have never really tried to comfort her any other way, she has always asked for milk. In case it's relevant she does not nurse a great deal in the day now, morning and before nap if we are home and before bed. She will ask very occasionally outside of this and I wouldn't normally refuse. As for how long a stretch, at present she has no pattern at all so sometimes she will wake just as I am going to bed, once in the middle of my sleep and that will be it (these are good nights!)...
    3 replies | 149 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 01:52 PM
    Hi nhecht12, I am so sorry you are having this concern. It does sound like baby's gain is slow, but at this point you do not really know why. Is it because baby needs to nurse longer? more often? Is baby not able to transfer milk normally, or is your produciuton low? In a case like this, some supplementing may be appropriate. What is not appropriate is limiting time at the breast. There is no need to do this in order to supplement. Baby is proving they can gain while nursing, if slowly. This means baby is getting a good amount of milk from nursing- the difference between slow gain and normal gain is usually just a few ounces total per day. Limiting time at the breast is only helpful if MOM needs to limit the time because of time management concerns- in other words if the strain of nursing, pumping and supplementing is so great it is harmful to mom, then limiting time at the breast somewhat might make sense, but it is still likely to cause more issue for breastfeeding. 5 minutes? That is a ridiculous number- a baby this age typically will nurse from 20-60 minutes 10-15 times a day, that is normal, limiting a baby to 5 minutes is likely going to destroy your breastfeeding relationship. Of course it is also possible you are on the brink of getting baby nursing well, and no supplements are needed, it all depends on what exactly caused the slower gain and if that is self-correcting or not. Here are my suggestions: -If at all possible, see a IBCLC in person for a...
    1 replies | 35 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 08:46 AM
    I would suggest adjusting the position- how much you lean, and how exactly baby is positioned. The nice thing about laid back (and really most nursing positions) is that there are endless variations to experiment with. So she started crying while nursing, came off the breast, and refused to latch again? I am trying to understand what you mean by she was finished. .29 kg is a slightly over 10 ounces. This would be normal gain for 2 weeks because it would average out to 5 ounces a week, and while that is on the low end of normal gain rate, it is still normal gain, as normal average gain in the newborn period (2 weeks to 3 months) is 5-8 ounces per week. In the previous 2 weeks while supplemented, iirc, your baby gained 3 pounds. This is three times normal gain. There is no way that would be a sustainable weight gain rate. Of course it reduced and reduced substantially. Also because baby was gaining so fast when supplemented, it makes sense gain would slow down this much so things "even out" with overall gain. Weight gain happens in fits and starts and the most accurate way to measure gain is to step back and look at the big picture. At this point it is hard for you to do this because you are comparing time periods of supplementing to time periods of not supplementing, and that is confusing the issue.
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 08:17 AM
    Pain = Injury. It is just a matter of degree. This is why we feel pain, so we stop doing or make adjustments to whatever is causing us to feel pain before the injury is severe. Just as nursing should not hurt, pumping should not hurt. To test your Symphony pump motor you would need to contact whoever you rented the pump from and see if they have the equipment to do that. They may not. It is possible that the old pump caused the problem and not the new, but it still hurts because you were injured and since you still have to pump the injury is taking longer to heal. It is also possible a plug or something has developed and that is causing more pain. Usually though what needs to happen is adjustments to pump setting, pump frequency/duration, and/or flange size. Some moms find lubing the flange with a little olive oil or other non-allergenic food based oil allows for more comfortable pumping when the flange is slightly small. It helps lessen the issue of nipple rubbing on the tunnel. Also being very careful about how you position the breast in the flange to lessen rubbing helps. Generally there are more issues caused by a too large flange than a too small one. This is because it would damage the areola to have it pulled too much into the tunnel and also because a large flange is not as effective and that might cause mom to put the setting too high. But that is general, your experience might be different.
    3 replies | 82 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 07:17 AM
    Thanks m, this is very useful. I was wondering about this and a bit concerned at the look of my breasts. I wonder how one knows if injury is occurring, but it sure feels like it. Also, how do you detect a malfunctioning pump? I am renting the Symphony for now. Thanks.
    3 replies | 82 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 07:16 AM
    Thank you MaddieB! That is all very helpful Have you tried adopting a more laid back nursing position? You leaning back (as little or as much as you like, but not flat on your back) and baby kind of on top of you? This often helps with "slippage" Yes, she cannot seem to get the milk out - I used to think it was because she couldn't "grasp" the skin as it's too soft. But maybe it is an anatomical issue. I am just done BF and she finished unhappy and crying, I am now pumping because without it I'm worried supply will drop. Pumping immediately yields me milk but she can't. I'm at my wit's end, she won't take the bottle either and rather be hungry. I am thinking she probably does have lip and tongue tie, I really didn't want her to undergo laser for it but I may have to at this rate.
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 07:12 AM
    She gained 0.29kgs - I actually don't know what it is in ounces. Yes, in the last two weeks. Sorry it was unclear.
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*nhecht12's Avatar
    Today, 06:37 AM
    I'm struggling emotionally with breast feeding because my doctor wants me to supplement with my pumped milk using a bottle.. my LO lost 11% of her body weight in the first 5 days due to latching difficulties (she's a 37 weeker & I have extremely large nipples), but has been doing great since we introduced a nipple shield. She's gained back 4.5 oz, at a rate of about a half an oz a day, and the doctor says she should be gaining about an oz a day at this point. She's 11 days old, and still about 7.5 oz away from her birth weight. We've given her a bottle of 1-2oz a few times and she has still been latching okay, but after our visit the doctor wants us to let her nurse for only 5 mins or so and then give her the bottle because she thinks that maybe LO isn't getting enough when nursing - not because of low supply, but because she isn't sucking efficiently.It feels wrong to me. My gut is telling me she's eating fine - she has 8-10 wet and dirty diapers a day, she isn't fussy, and is waking to feed every 2-3 hours. She was also jaundice after birth and very sleepy which added to the feeding difficulties. I just don't know what to do - is there a way to measure what she's getting from the breast every feeding? Or does anyone have any advice on how to keep her sucking efficiently while nursing? I am just having a really hard time with this.
    1 replies | 35 view(s)
  • @llli*agnesd's Avatar
    Today, 02:01 AM
    maddieb, thank you really! I was about to update. Today I was offering her, she said no, and then after I pulled down my shirt she sucked on my arm... and then my elbo (elbo has happened once (maybe 2-3months ago?) during midnight when I was sleepy and skipped a feed) It feels like the first positive(or at least neutral) reaction since strike.Could it mean something that's anything?
    5 replies | 160 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:43 PM
    I think there are many ideas in the kellymom post that would work for older kids if you adjust them a little. You may have to try several things many times, that is the nature of strikes. For this age I guess I would also suggest play with baby as much as you can while topless. Also if you are not sleeping beside your child currently, try doing that, again either with easy access or topless. If she likes to be in a carrier, can you still manage a front hold or is she just too big?
    5 replies | 160 view(s)
  • @llli*simorosap's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:50 PM
    Hi!! I'm new here! I've read posts related to my problem but haven't seen solutions and I'm kind of desperate. BF started to flow for me and my baby past 6 weeks due to a milk blister, and ever since has been complete bliss. Until 2 weeks ago when baby started nursing funny!! She is 3 month and a week old. She will nurse for 1 minute on the breast and then unlatch and cry histerically whilst looking for the nipple, it's very confusing for me I try burping her because she arches her back and gets very stiff when she does this but gas doesn't seem to be the problem. I've read threads of women who get this in the evenings, mine does this all day long!!! I have found nursing while bouncing around helps sometimes (so i thought it was because she gets distracted) but doesn't work everytime plus I'm gonna be backless when this passes if it ever passes!!! I would love inputs on this it's very frustrating, our loving, wonderfull nursing sessions have become a war... Thank you very much!!
    0 replies | 61 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:40 PM
    Usually when moms want to night wean, it is because when their child wakes at night, the child insists on nursing and will not fall back asleep any other way (or at least not without a struggle.) So if your child has no need to nurse to sleep, even overnight, is what you mean by night weaning is that she not nurse when she wakes up but be ok to be comforted another way? Or are you trying to find a way she would not wake overnight or would at least stay in her own bed or room? It would help to know what the goal is, also how long a stretch of not nursing and/or longer sleep you are wanting compared to what is the case now.
    3 replies | 149 view(s)
  • @llli*agnesd's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:13 PM
    thank you all! I tried asleep nursing! Unfortunately, no luck.If she's asleep she does not open, if she's somewhat concious, she refuses... The suggestions I've so far read on kellymom seems like they're for under 12 month babies.(like kangaroo cuddling) but your post is really encouraging me! YES she was ill, ill has always made nursing go weird and maybe this time it just went the other way! I wanted that, but it felt like a fantasy. I miss the happy nights when she loved going to bed. Now she sobs at the word "bed", begs for ergo or shoes, then starts crying. I have a hard time putting screaming child to sleep (she screams at morning too! I miss the morning feed) I can't help thinking, why won't she just feed! It gets more and more disheartning. She doesn't even latch(last few more like just "put in mouth") anymore day or night.
    5 replies | 160 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:31 PM
    since she was 2 weeks old she gained a little over half a pound? or do you mean in the last 2 weeks? Also you can report in metric if that comes more natural to you. I can convert it as long as I understand what type of unit you are using. Also, to me, .63 pounds would be about 10 ounces. Am I understanding what you meant by .63 pounds correctly?
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:08 AM
    This happens because pumps extract milk form the breasts completely differently than babies do. Pumps use suction and this tends to pull fluid (not milk, I mean it causes edema- fluid in the cells) into the areola and nipple and this is what would cause the bloat. Also pump injury is common, so pumping too long, at too high a setting or with a malfunctioning pump (even motors can malfunction and be a problem) or when using a poorly fitted flange, any of those could be causing injury and consequently inflammation. I would suggest try adjusting the pump suction and use the lowest setting possible. Trouble shoot the pump (change membranes, etc.) I am not sure what it suggest as far as flanges- maybe use whatever flange is most comfortable and still works at a lower pump setting. Try hand expression instead, hand expression milks the breasts more like a baby does and is much less likely to cause injury. Try to never pump longer than 30 minutes per side, shorter is better. At the same time, do not turn the pump up too high trying to get more milk our more quickly. As long as baby is exclusively nursing, even if you do need to pump to protect your milk production, your need to pump is not going to be as high as it was when baby was getting supplements.
    3 replies | 82 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 10:58 AM
    Hi again. I get it that you are thinking baby cannot nurse properly...but you really do not know if that is the case, it is at this point a suspicion, unless I am misunderstanding something here. And this is actually a very common suspicion that is often unfounded, and when a baby has been bottle fed and/or mom is pumping, the vast differences between pumping and bottles v. nursing at the breast tend to increase this suspicion. The concern that baby is not getting enough to eat at the breast, whether due to low production or some other issue, is one of the most common reasons moms stop nursing. But in fact often baby is transferring milk just fine and there is no problem with production, or when there is any issue, it is much more minor and more easily addressed than mom thinks. Here is how you tell a baby is getting enough to eat. Weight gain, accurately measured, is all the info you need. If a baby is gaining normally exclusively breastfed, there is almost certainly no problem. (Unless nursing hurts mom, that is the other main problem when it comes to breastfeeding.) You do not have to see an IBCLC to get properly done weight checks. Properly done weight checks means: Checks are done on the same digital, professional grade infant scale. It has to be the SAME SCALE each time, and if the scale is recalibrated between weight checks, you need to know that. Baby is naked or in a dry diaper Check is done carefully by someone who has the patience and knowledge to...
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:56 AM
    I have an old Freestyle my friend gave me and I recently rented a Symphony (Medela) However whichever machine I use, after pumping, my nipples and areola are soft, huge and look bloated. The right side also hurts a little. I've tried the different shields. The 24 seems to fit my nipple size better but still pulls a large part of the areola. It also "just" touches the shield in some parts. The 27 is larger, and of course also pulls large part of areola but at least seems to get milk out. yesterday I tried stopping pumping but baby was still not satisfied, plus I am worried about milk supply. Is there a risk to pumping at all? Thanks.
    3 replies | 82 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:58 AM
    I started another thread yesterday but essentially I am feeling really down and depressed and concerned as baby 1. is not efficient at extracting milk. We used to just supplement her with expressed milk or formula to top her up and support her weight gain 2. since 10 days ago, she refuses the bottle. She has had bottle since Day 1-2 (at the hospital). She was happy with it. Now she cries and screams as soon as she sees it. If she's in a good mood, she will just push her tongue out (defensively) and or leave it in her mouth but not suck. Yesterday I was so desperate I put it in her mouth and said "Please take it" - I felt bad after this, and anyway she still wouldn't. We've tried other feeding method eg. tube on breast and finger and she also cries and refuses. It seems that she only wants the breast now. She is on it most of the time and it's so exhausting for me and I'm very worried about her weight gain.
    0 replies | 66 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:36 AM
    I would suggest read the article I posted above, then call a few and get a feel for what their experience is, their process is, etc before booking a consult. Thank you. I don't mind paying of course, it's more the quality I care about. The weights are very wonky. Am I reading that correct? they indicate fairly fast gain up to 2 weeks, then actual loss!!!??? for the next two weeks, and then from 4 weeks to 6 weeks baby gained 3 pounds!!!????! Normal gain for this whole period (2 weeks to about 3-4 months) is average about one pound (or a little less) every 2 weeks. If baby really gained 3 pounds in 2 weeks, part of that may have been catch up, but it would overall indicate overfeeding. I believe the weight loss factor was incorrect, as the doctor's office didn't calibrate it properly. Therefore, I don't know how accurate these measurements are. However, that said, when she gained weight, she was bottlefed up to 120mL (4 ounces). She was weighed today and since 2 weeks, she has gained 0.63 pounds. Overfeeding is not some terrible thing, it routinely happens when a baby is bottle fed. For the breastfed baby and mom, the worst thing about overfeeding is it makes mom think she does not make enough milk when she actually does, or think baby cannot nurse normally, or makes mom think that a baby should behave like an over fed baby and not like a regular baby.
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:30 AM
    285-470 upped to 500-650 milliliters per bottle? a 500 milliliter bottle is 17 ounces! Or is this what baby was getting per day? Also, how much about do you pump when you pump if it is not after nursing? Pumping 50 mils after baby nurses sounds normal to me. That is a per day count Pumping not after nursing - depends - on a per day count I started around 300mL, now I think it is around 500mL (with a few BF sessions thrown in) Long as in how long? Generally it is normal for a baby to want to nurse long periods. Some nurse a long time and others nurse shorter. What I mean is long sessions are not necessarily indicative of a problem. When there is little milk, I feel she can stay there for hours, but she generally falls asleep and when I put her down she cries or wakes up and cries and wants to eat again.
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*djs.mom's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 09:46 PM
    Try nursing her when she is actually a sleep.Most of the time striking babies will eat when actually sleeping.
    5 replies | 160 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 07:56 PM
    Hi agnesd. Here is how strikes are defined as opposed to weaning. Stikes are sudden and weaning is gradual. Yes sometimes a strike is so severe baby does not nurse again. It happens, but that would still be a strike that led into weaning, rather than the typical gradual weaning process. So what you are describing sounds like a strike, absolutely. More evidence is that it started when baby was ill and then you became engorged. These are the kind of things that can "trigger' strikes even when they never did before. So I would suggest, think of this as a strike, and the most common outcome of a strike is that baby nurses again as long as they are gently encouraged to do so (and it can take time) and mom protects her milk production. Since you want to nurse your child again it makes sense to pump as you are doing and continue to offer to nurse as much as you like. It sounds to me that your child would also very much like to nurse again but something happened (and you may never know what) that has caused baby to not want to nurse or even feel unable to nurse, most likely entirely temporarily. Gently encouraging a child to nurse is not "pressure" or being selfish, I promise. Many times nursing comes again when baby is asleep, falling asleep or just awaking. There are many other tips to try. Try several things and then try them again. This excellent article explains many good ideas. http://kellymom.com/ages/newborn/nb-challenges/back-to-breast/ and here is more info on...
    5 replies | 160 view(s)
  • @llli*agnesd's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 03:04 PM
    Hi. I am a Japanese FTM living in Japan. My daughter, 20months, has not nursed for 4 days now. It started this thursday, a slightly funny, distracted day where dd did not really concentrate during any session during the day. Given that (plus the fact that on wednesday night she had a sudden fever and whenever she does she nurses like crazy if in the daytime and have looooong-co sleep -sessions all night at night) by evening my boobs were pretty hard( I am a very sloppy hand pumper and never have plugs due to wide ducts thus I rarely try to pump out of that) and I really wanted/needed her to suck it out, and she finally did! I was releived, happy, wonderfully tender-breasted, and at that point not realising at ALL that was going to be the last real session. That night, she did not latch on(I usually nurse her to sleep). She was upset and screamed throught the night. She kept shouting " Hold me!" "Nurse me!" and "Lie me to down!" ( in her own words) repeatedly, I attempted those three things over and over but she never latched on. Or go to sleep except like for a couple of minutes due to pure fatigue... Friday morning I had to BUY a pump - for the first time in my BF life at 20 MONTHS! my breasts were so hard I could not possibly hand pump. Plus dd requested endless " hold me"s so it was bad combination agony with my breast condition.That and she continued to strike( or what ever it is) that whole day. Saturday and Sunday, and today basically the same. I am shocked, sad,...
    5 replies | 160 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 12:08 PM
    It is normal for a two month old to nurse at least 10 times a day. Your baby's nursing pattern as far as frequency sounds entirely normal to me. In fact the night nursing is a little on the lower end of normal. Many babies wake more often than that at this age to nurse. Some IBCLCs charge an hourly rate and others charge a per consultation rate, but in the long run this amounts to the same thing. Again these are trained professionals who had to pay to be trained and educated and continue to pay to get the continuing education they need and the testing to remain certified. They have to carry insurance and have all the other overhead costs any other professional would have, even if they do home visits (do not have an office) they have many such costs. I would suggest read the article I posted above, then call a few and get a feel for what their experience is, their process is, etc before booking a consult. The weights are very wonky. Am I reading that correct? they indicate fairly fast gain up to 2 weeks, then actual loss!!!??? for the next two weeks, and then from 4 weeks to 6 weeks baby gained 3 pounds!!!????! Normal gain for this whole period (2 weeks to about 3-4 months) is average about one pound (or a little less) every 2 weeks. If baby really gained 3 pounds in 2 weeks, part of that may have been catch up, but it would overall indicate overfeeding. Overfeeding is not some terrible thing, it routinely happens when a baby is bottle fed. For the breastfed baby...
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 11:54 AM
    Ok real quick- 285-470 upped to 500-650 milliliters per bottle? a 500 milliliter bottle is 17 ounces! Or is this what baby was getting per day? Also, how much about do you pump when you pump if it is not after nursing? Pumping 50 mils after baby nurses sounds normal to me. Long as in how long? Generally it is normal for a baby to want to nurse long periods. Some nurse a long time and others nurse shorter. What I mean is long sessions are not necessarily indicative of a problem.
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 11:52 AM
    Thank you Maddie B. I will try to answer the questions: Also, how many times a day (24 hours) does baby nurse currently? During the day, she nurses between 1.5 hours an 2.5 hours generally - and at night now she sleeps 4-5 hours and then 3 hours during the night. I would say she still nurses 10 times a day. No, I have not sat with an IBCLC. Most in my area seem to charge hourly rates. I will try to find one I can trust. But in the meantime, perhaps try pumping only when you are fairly sure baby is down for a while, or pump a bit less out at a time, or pump on one side only so the other side is more full when baby nurses?
    13 replies | 220 view(s)
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