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  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 08:46 AM
    I would suggest adjusting the position- how much you lean, and how exactly baby is positioned. The nice thing about laid back (and really most nursing positions) is that there are endless variations to experiment with. So she started crying while nursing, came off the breast, and refused to latch again? I am trying to understand what you mean by she was finished. .29 kg is a slightly over 10 ounces. This would be normal gain for 2 weeks because it would average out to 5 ounces a week, and while that is on the low end of normal gain rate, it is still normal gain, as normal average gain in the newborn period (2 weeks to 3 months) is 5-8 ounces per week. In the previous 2 weeks while supplemented, iirc, your baby gained 3 pounds. This is three times normal gain. There is no way that would be a sustainable weight gain rate. Of course it reduced and reduced substantially. Also because baby was gaining so fast when supplemented, it makes sense gain would slow down this much so things "even out" with overall gain. Weight gain happens in fits and starts and the most accurate way to measure gain is to step back and look at the big picture. At this point it is hard for you to do this because you are comparing time periods of supplementing to time periods of not supplementing, and that is confusing the issue.
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Today, 08:17 AM
    Pain = Injury. It is just a matter of degree. This is why we feel pain, so we stop doing or make adjustments to whatever is causing us to feel pain before the injury is severe. Just as nursing should not hurt, pumping should not hurt. To test your Symphony pump motor you would need to contact whoever you rented the pump from and see if they have the equipment to do that. They may not. It is possible that the old pump caused the problem and not the new, but it still hurts because you were injured and since you still have to pump the injury is taking longer to heal. It is also possible a plug or something has developed and that is causing more pain. Usually though what needs to happen is adjustments to pump setting, pump frequency/duration, and/or flange size. Some moms find lubing the flange with a little olive oil or other non-allergenic food based oil allows for more comfortable pumping when the flange is slightly small. It helps lessen the issue of nipple rubbing on the tunnel. Also being very careful about how you position the breast in the flange to lessen rubbing helps. Generally there are more issues caused by a too large flange than a too small one. This is because it would damage the areola to have it pulled too much into the tunnel and also because a large flange is not as effective and that might cause mom to put the setting too high. But that is general, your experience might be different.
    3 replies | 76 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 07:17 AM
    Thanks m, this is very useful. I was wondering about this and a bit concerned at the look of my breasts. I wonder how one knows if injury is occurring, but it sure feels like it. Also, how do you detect a malfunctioning pump? I am renting the Symphony for now. Thanks.
    3 replies | 76 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 07:16 AM
    Thank you MaddieB! That is all very helpful Have you tried adopting a more laid back nursing position? You leaning back (as little or as much as you like, but not flat on your back) and baby kind of on top of you? This often helps with "slippage" Yes, she cannot seem to get the milk out - I used to think it was because she couldn't "grasp" the skin as it's too soft. But maybe it is an anatomical issue. I am just done BF and she finished unhappy and crying, I am now pumping because without it I'm worried supply will drop. Pumping immediately yields me milk but she can't. I'm at my wit's end, she won't take the bottle either and rather be hungry. I am thinking she probably does have lip and tongue tie, I really didn't want her to undergo laser for it but I may have to at this rate.
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Today, 07:12 AM
    She gained 0.29kgs - I actually don't know what it is in ounces. Yes, in the last two weeks. Sorry it was unclear.
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*nhecht12's Avatar
    Today, 06:37 AM
    I'm struggling emotionally with breast feeding because my doctor wants me to supplement with my pumped milk using a bottle.. my LO lost 11% of her body weight in the first 5 days due to latching difficulties (she's a 37 weeker & I have extremely large nipples), but has been doing great since we introduced a nipple shield. She's gained back 4.5 oz, at a rate of about a half an oz a day, and the doctor says she should be gaining about an oz a day at this point. She's 11 days old, and still about 7.5 oz away from her birth weight. We've given her a bottle of 1-2oz a few times and she has still been latching okay, but after our visit the doctor wants us to let her nurse for only 5 mins or so and then give her the bottle because she thinks that maybe LO isn't getting enough when nursing - not because of low supply, but because she isn't sucking efficiently.It feels wrong to me. My gut is telling me she's eating fine - she has 8-10 wet and dirty diapers a day, she isn't fussy, and is waking to feed every 2-3 hours. She was also jaundice after birth and very sleepy which added to the feeding difficulties. I just don't know what to do - is there a way to measure what she's getting from the breast every feeding? Or does anyone have any advice on how to keep her sucking efficiently while nursing? I am just having a really hard time with this.
    0 replies | 26 view(s)
  • @llli*agnesd's Avatar
    Today, 02:01 AM
    maddieb, thank you really! I was about to update. Today I was offering her, she said no, and then after I pulled down my shirt she sucked on my arm... and then my elbo (elbo has happened once (maybe 2-3months ago?) during midnight when I was sleepy and skipped a feed) It feels like the first positive(or at least neutral) reaction since strike.Could it mean something that's anything?
    5 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 08:43 PM
    I think there are many ideas in the kellymom post that would work for older kids if you adjust them a little. You may have to try several things many times, that is the nature of strikes. For this age I guess I would also suggest play with baby as much as you can while topless. Also if you are not sleeping beside your child currently, try doing that, again either with easy access or topless. If she likes to be in a carrier, can you still manage a front hold or is she just too big?
    5 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*simorosap's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:50 PM
    Hi!! I'm new here! I've read posts related to my problem but haven't seen solutions and I'm kind of desperate. BF started to flow for me and my baby past 6 weeks due to a milk blister, and ever since has been complete bliss. Until 2 weeks ago when baby started nursing funny!! She is 3 month and a week old. She will nurse for 1 minute on the breast and then unlatch and cry histerically whilst looking for the nipple, it's very confusing for me I try burping her because she arches her back and gets very stiff when she does this but gas doesn't seem to be the problem. I've read threads of women who get this in the evenings, mine does this all day long!!! I have found nursing while bouncing around helps sometimes (so i thought it was because she gets distracted) but doesn't work everytime plus I'm gonna be backless when this passes if it ever passes!!! I would love inputs on this it's very frustrating, our loving, wonderfull nursing sessions have become a war... Thank you very much!!
    0 replies | 53 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:40 PM
    Usually when moms want to night wean, it is because when their child wakes at night, the child insists on nursing and will not fall back asleep any other way (or at least not without a struggle.) So if your child has no need to nurse to sleep, even overnight, is what you mean by night weaning is that she not nurse when she wakes up but be ok to be comforted another way? Or are you trying to find a way she would not wake overnight or would at least stay in her own bed or room? It would help to know what the goal is, also how long a stretch of not nursing and/or longer sleep you are wanting compared to what is the case now.
    2 replies | 145 view(s)
  • @llli*agnesd's Avatar
    Yesterday, 03:13 PM
    thank you all! I tried asleep nursing! Unfortunately, no luck.If she's asleep she does not open, if she's somewhat concious, she refuses... The suggestions I've so far read on kellymom seems like they're for under 12 month babies.(like kangaroo cuddling) but your post is really encouraging me! YES she was ill, ill has always made nursing go weird and maybe this time it just went the other way! I wanted that, but it felt like a fantasy. I miss the happy nights when she loved going to bed. Now she sobs at the word "bed", begs for ergo or shoes, then starts crying. I have a hard time putting screaming child to sleep (she screams at morning too! I miss the morning feed) I can't help thinking, why won't she just feed! It gets more and more disheartning. She doesn't even latch(last few more like just "put in mouth") anymore day or night.
    5 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 02:31 PM
    since she was 2 weeks old she gained a little over half a pound? or do you mean in the last 2 weeks? Also you can report in metric if that comes more natural to you. I can convert it as long as I understand what type of unit you are using. Also, to me, .63 pounds would be about 10 ounces. Am I understanding what you meant by .63 pounds correctly?
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:08 AM
    This happens because pumps extract milk form the breasts completely differently than babies do. Pumps use suction and this tends to pull fluid (not milk, I mean it causes edema- fluid in the cells) into the areola and nipple and this is what would cause the bloat. Also pump injury is common, so pumping too long, at too high a setting or with a malfunctioning pump (even motors can malfunction and be a problem) or when using a poorly fitted flange, any of those could be causing injury and consequently inflammation. I would suggest try adjusting the pump suction and use the lowest setting possible. Trouble shoot the pump (change membranes, etc.) I am not sure what it suggest as far as flanges- maybe use whatever flange is most comfortable and still works at a lower pump setting. Try hand expression instead, hand expression milks the breasts more like a baby does and is much less likely to cause injury. Try to never pump longer than 30 minutes per side, shorter is better. At the same time, do not turn the pump up too high trying to get more milk our more quickly. As long as baby is exclusively nursing, even if you do need to pump to protect your milk production, your need to pump is not going to be as high as it was when baby was getting supplements.
    3 replies | 76 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    Yesterday, 10:58 AM
    Hi again. I get it that you are thinking baby cannot nurse properly...but you really do not know if that is the case, it is at this point a suspicion, unless I am misunderstanding something here. And this is actually a very common suspicion that is often unfounded, and when a baby has been bottle fed and/or mom is pumping, the vast differences between pumping and bottles v. nursing at the breast tend to increase this suspicion. The concern that baby is not getting enough to eat at the breast, whether due to low production or some other issue, is one of the most common reasons moms stop nursing. But in fact often baby is transferring milk just fine and there is no problem with production, or when there is any issue, it is much more minor and more easily addressed than mom thinks. Here is how you tell a baby is getting enough to eat. Weight gain, accurately measured, is all the info you need. If a baby is gaining normally exclusively breastfed, there is almost certainly no problem. (Unless nursing hurts mom, that is the other main problem when it comes to breastfeeding.) You do not have to see an IBCLC to get properly done weight checks. Properly done weight checks means: Checks are done on the same digital, professional grade infant scale. It has to be the SAME SCALE each time, and if the scale is recalibrated between weight checks, you need to know that. Baby is naked or in a dry diaper Check is done carefully by someone who has the patience and knowledge to...
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 07:56 AM
    I have an old Freestyle my friend gave me and I recently rented a Symphony (Medela) However whichever machine I use, after pumping, my nipples and areola are soft, huge and look bloated. The right side also hurts a little. I've tried the different shields. The 24 seems to fit my nipple size better but still pulls a large part of the areola. It also "just" touches the shield in some parts. The 27 is larger, and of course also pulls large part of areola but at least seems to get milk out. yesterday I tried stopping pumping but baby was still not satisfied, plus I am worried about milk supply. Is there a risk to pumping at all? Thanks.
    3 replies | 76 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:58 AM
    I started another thread yesterday but essentially I am feeling really down and depressed and concerned as baby 1. is not efficient at extracting milk. We used to just supplement her with expressed milk or formula to top her up and support her weight gain 2. since 10 days ago, she refuses the bottle. She has had bottle since Day 1-2 (at the hospital). She was happy with it. Now she cries and screams as soon as she sees it. If she's in a good mood, she will just push her tongue out (defensively) and or leave it in her mouth but not suck. Yesterday I was so desperate I put it in her mouth and said "Please take it" - I felt bad after this, and anyway she still wouldn't. We've tried other feeding method eg. tube on breast and finger and she also cries and refuses. It seems that she only wants the breast now. She is on it most of the time and it's so exhausting for me and I'm very worried about her weight gain.
    0 replies | 65 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:36 AM
    I would suggest read the article I posted above, then call a few and get a feel for what their experience is, their process is, etc before booking a consult. Thank you. I don't mind paying of course, it's more the quality I care about. The weights are very wonky. Am I reading that correct? they indicate fairly fast gain up to 2 weeks, then actual loss!!!??? for the next two weeks, and then from 4 weeks to 6 weeks baby gained 3 pounds!!!????! Normal gain for this whole period (2 weeks to about 3-4 months) is average about one pound (or a little less) every 2 weeks. If baby really gained 3 pounds in 2 weeks, part of that may have been catch up, but it would overall indicate overfeeding. I believe the weight loss factor was incorrect, as the doctor's office didn't calibrate it properly. Therefore, I don't know how accurate these measurements are. However, that said, when she gained weight, she was bottlefed up to 120mL (4 ounces). She was weighed today and since 2 weeks, she has gained 0.63 pounds. Overfeeding is not some terrible thing, it routinely happens when a baby is bottle fed. For the breastfed baby and mom, the worst thing about overfeeding is it makes mom think she does not make enough milk when she actually does, or think baby cannot nurse normally, or makes mom think that a baby should behave like an over fed baby and not like a regular baby.
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    Yesterday, 04:30 AM
    285-470 upped to 500-650 milliliters per bottle? a 500 milliliter bottle is 17 ounces! Or is this what baby was getting per day? Also, how much about do you pump when you pump if it is not after nursing? Pumping 50 mils after baby nurses sounds normal to me. That is a per day count Pumping not after nursing - depends - on a per day count I started around 300mL, now I think it is around 500mL (with a few BF sessions thrown in) Long as in how long? Generally it is normal for a baby to want to nurse long periods. Some nurse a long time and others nurse shorter. What I mean is long sessions are not necessarily indicative of a problem. When there is little milk, I feel she can stay there for hours, but she generally falls asleep and when I put her down she cries or wakes up and cries and wants to eat again.
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*djs.mom's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 09:46 PM
    Try nursing her when she is actually a sleep.Most of the time striking babies will eat when actually sleeping.
    5 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 07:56 PM
    Hi agnesd. Here is how strikes are defined as opposed to weaning. Stikes are sudden and weaning is gradual. Yes sometimes a strike is so severe baby does not nurse again. It happens, but that would still be a strike that led into weaning, rather than the typical gradual weaning process. So what you are describing sounds like a strike, absolutely. More evidence is that it started when baby was ill and then you became engorged. These are the kind of things that can "trigger' strikes even when they never did before. So I would suggest, think of this as a strike, and the most common outcome of a strike is that baby nurses again as long as they are gently encouraged to do so (and it can take time) and mom protects her milk production. Since you want to nurse your child again it makes sense to pump as you are doing and continue to offer to nurse as much as you like. It sounds to me that your child would also very much like to nurse again but something happened (and you may never know what) that has caused baby to not want to nurse or even feel unable to nurse, most likely entirely temporarily. Gently encouraging a child to nurse is not "pressure" or being selfish, I promise. Many times nursing comes again when baby is asleep, falling asleep or just awaking. There are many other tips to try. Try several things and then try them again. This excellent article explains many good ideas. http://kellymom.com/ages/newborn/nb-challenges/back-to-breast/ and here is more info on...
    5 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*agnesd's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 03:04 PM
    Hi. I am a Japanese FTM living in Japan. My daughter, 20months, has not nursed for 4 days now. It started this thursday, a slightly funny, distracted day where dd did not really concentrate during any session during the day. Given that (plus the fact that on wednesday night she had a sudden fever and whenever she does she nurses like crazy if in the daytime and have looooong-co sleep -sessions all night at night) by evening my boobs were pretty hard( I am a very sloppy hand pumper and never have plugs due to wide ducts thus I rarely try to pump out of that) and I really wanted/needed her to suck it out, and she finally did! I was releived, happy, wonderfully tender-breasted, and at that point not realising at ALL that was going to be the last real session. That night, she did not latch on(I usually nurse her to sleep). She was upset and screamed throught the night. She kept shouting " Hold me!" "Nurse me!" and "Lie me to down!" ( in her own words) repeatedly, I attempted those three things over and over but she never latched on. Or go to sleep except like for a couple of minutes due to pure fatigue... Friday morning I had to BUY a pump - for the first time in my BF life at 20 MONTHS! my breasts were so hard I could not possibly hand pump. Plus dd requested endless " hold me"s so it was bad combination agony with my breast condition.That and she continued to strike( or what ever it is) that whole day. Saturday and Sunday, and today basically the same. I am shocked, sad,...
    5 replies | 154 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 12:08 PM
    It is normal for a two month old to nurse at least 10 times a day. Your baby's nursing pattern as far as frequency sounds entirely normal to me. In fact the night nursing is a little on the lower end of normal. Many babies wake more often than that at this age to nurse. Some IBCLCs charge an hourly rate and others charge a per consultation rate, but in the long run this amounts to the same thing. Again these are trained professionals who had to pay to be trained and educated and continue to pay to get the continuing education they need and the testing to remain certified. They have to carry insurance and have all the other overhead costs any other professional would have, even if they do home visits (do not have an office) they have many such costs. I would suggest read the article I posted above, then call a few and get a feel for what their experience is, their process is, etc before booking a consult. The weights are very wonky. Am I reading that correct? they indicate fairly fast gain up to 2 weeks, then actual loss!!!??? for the next two weeks, and then from 4 weeks to 6 weeks baby gained 3 pounds!!!????! Normal gain for this whole period (2 weeks to about 3-4 months) is average about one pound (or a little less) every 2 weeks. If baby really gained 3 pounds in 2 weeks, part of that may have been catch up, but it would overall indicate overfeeding. Overfeeding is not some terrible thing, it routinely happens when a baby is bottle fed. For the breastfed baby...
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 11:54 AM
    Ok real quick- 285-470 upped to 500-650 milliliters per bottle? a 500 milliliter bottle is 17 ounces! Or is this what baby was getting per day? Also, how much about do you pump when you pump if it is not after nursing? Pumping 50 mils after baby nurses sounds normal to me. Long as in how long? Generally it is normal for a baby to want to nurse long periods. Some nurse a long time and others nurse shorter. What I mean is long sessions are not necessarily indicative of a problem.
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 11:52 AM
    Thank you Maddie B. I will try to answer the questions: Also, how many times a day (24 hours) does baby nurse currently? During the day, she nurses between 1.5 hours an 2.5 hours generally - and at night now she sleeps 4-5 hours and then 3 hours during the night. I would say she still nurses 10 times a day. No, I have not sat with an IBCLC. Most in my area seem to charge hourly rates. I will try to find one I can trust. But in the meantime, perhaps try pumping only when you are fairly sure baby is down for a while, or pump a bit less out at a time, or pump on one side only so the other side is more full when baby nurses?
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 11:10 AM
    Ok, I know I asked lots of questions but I do need those answers to help more. I am still not hearing exactly how baby is gaining. It would help to know. I do not need whole weight gain history, just the highlights. I am particularly curious what the gain was when you were told baby was gaining poorly and to increase supplements. If you can use pounds and ounces for everything that would help but if not I will convert. Also, how many times a day (24 hours) does baby nurse currently? Is baby currently getting any supplements at all? It is unclear. Have you ever sat with an IBCLC or anyone else who knows how to do it, and had breastfeeding fully assessed? I think it is important this happen if at all possible. Here is info on what this would consist of: http://www.cwgenna.com/lconsult.html I would suggest perhaps not getting the lip tie treated without having an IBCLC assess things first and to help you with follow up after. If baby is latching better on a fuller breast, that could indicate a few issues but guiding you there is above my knowledge. However, it may be that in this case, the pumping is causing poor transfer due to the breast being less full from the pumping when baby nurses. Of course a baby should be able to nurse just fine on a soft breast, so again this need for a full breast to get a good latch indicates a problem that will need to be addressed. But in the meantime, perhaps try pumping only when you are fairly sure baby is down for a while, or...
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*bunnyears's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 10:10 AM
    First of all, thank you, MaddieB, I must admit I felt quite disheartened and reluctant to contact the LLL after that experience, so thank you for that. I will PM you separately and now respond to your post: Baby is 8 weeks Baby is gaining well according to the last 3 weigh ins (only once she dropped in weight) - BUT in the last times she was weighed, she was being fed formula by bottle as well as some BF Since 10 days or so ago, she has suddenly refused the bottle, and my only option now is to BF her. She even refuses expressed milk in a bottle. I have not weighed her since this time. Baby was getting bottles since Day 2 to 10 days ago. We didn't measure at the beginning but my records show me that in Week 3 she was receiving between 285-470mL by bottle with some intermitten BF. In Week 4, after the doctor told us we were underfeeding her, due to weight loss, we upped bottles to about 500-650. Since August 11 she has refused the bottle (she looks disgusted or spits the milk back out, or plays with it with her tongue - unless she is very hungry) - she has received 50-210 mL of expressed milk by bottle 1. How are you determining that your milk production is low?
    13 replies | 209 view(s)
  • @llli*anuha's Avatar
    August 21st, 2017, 09:27 AM
    I have no personal experience of succesful night weaning (my first one didn't agree it was a good idea), but if I were to try it with my second baby (1yr 5 mths), I'd re-read some of Elizabeth Pantley's books. She has very gentle approaches. Here's a good review if you'd like more info before getting any.
    2 replies | 145 view(s)
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