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  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    Yesterday, 11:13 AM
    @llli*mama7008 replied to a thread Weaning to formula in Weaning
    Unfortunately, yes - I keep running into obstacles with pumping (would rather not go into details), and it’s causing more stress than even nursing through pain, so I need to be done. I’m hoping to not be nursing asap, but know because of my tendency toward plugs that I need to be careful. I have ordered sunflower lecithin (per LCs advice) to help avoid plugs, and sage if I feel I need to speed things up. I’ve started feeding him formula at one feeding instead of nursing this week, and so far am not having issues with engorgement or even fullness before I nurse him again. However, he only will take 3oz formula, so he’s hungry again within an hour (and that’s with also having a little solids for breakfast, too). I’m not sure if I need to start nursing him on a schedule and feeding formula on demand instead so as not to allow him to just hold out until he can nurse again. ETA: he only takes one side per nursing session, if that matters.
    2 replies | 56 view(s)
  • @llli*djs.mom's Avatar
    Yesterday, 10:33 AM
    @llli*djs.mom replied to a thread Weaning to formula in Weaning
    2-2.5 oz feeds especially for a baby that is nursing every 2 hours around the clock seems totally normal to me. So as of last week you were still interested in combo feeding your baby and this week you aren't? Exactly how soon are you hoping to be in position where you aren't nursing your baby at all anymore?
    2 replies | 56 view(s)
  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    January 14th, 2018, 11:02 PM
    Things have not been going well. I need to wean my 8.5 month old to formula, but not sure how best to go about that to be safe for me (prone to plugs) and allow him to get proper nutrition. When he’s had bottles, he takes 2-2.5oz breastmilk or 3 oz mix - 2oz formula, 1oz breastmilk. I know that seems low, per the LC I saw last week (this was before I decided to go full formula; we were working on mix of pumping and formula); I’m not sure why he only eats that much, but he pushes the bottle away if we try to continue feeding, and he is a very healthy, chunky boy (probably around 26 lbs based on last weight check). I know he’ll need to take a larger volume of formula to get enough calories, and I’m worried he won’t accept that. I had thought to slowly wean him off feeds, dropping one/week, to prevent me getting plugged ducts, but I fear doing it that way, he’ll just want to nurse more at times I offer (specifically waking more at night, and he already wakes every 2hrs at night most nights as it is). I know there are things I can take to help dry up faster (sage?), but if I do that, how will I know baby is adequately fed through bottles if he’s still trying to nurse? Just feeling a little lost and could use any advice I can get. (Also, I am 100% sure about this choice and would prefer not to have to go back through reasons why/what has led us to this point unless it’s applicable information for my questions here).
    2 replies | 56 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    January 13th, 2018, 10:24 PM
    Hi, I am so sorry your client is having this problem. While unusual, this kind of thing has been reported here before. It is very unfortunate. Obviously there are situations where CPS overreaches. It happens. But overall, remember these are people who see the worst of the worst when it comes to child neglect and abuse. And even in many of those cases, CPS tries to not take children away from the family if there are other ways to solve the problem, and when children are taken into custody, eventual family reunification is usually attempted if it is in any way possible. So, it is very unlikely CPS will take away children who are overall healthy, clearly not victims of neglect, but just a little small or gaining slowly. The problem in this case is that if it comes down to a doctor said/parent said situation, that might sway CPS against the parent. But not necessarily. In other words, it is one thing to have CPS called, and quite another to have CPS make the decision to take children away from their parents. By client I assume you are this mom's IBCLC? Midwife? Doula? Anyway, if appropriate, I suggest that you help this mom document everything that she has been doing to solve any breast feeding issues, document every poop, every bottle, every feeding at the breast, etc. and of course also weight checks from the start. Also have contact info for any other doctors involved in the babies care ever. Any people esp. medical professionals who would be familiar with the...
    1 replies | 138 view(s)
  • @llli*dizrn's Avatar
    January 11th, 2018, 04:50 PM
    I have a client I am working with who has two twin boys. Born at 38 weeks weights 5.3 and 7.5lbs Now at 17 weeks (4m 1w) they are 9.6lbs 21.75in and 9.16lbs 22.75in respectively. They have been hitting milestones appropriately. Tongue ties were revised by a competent physician at 8 weeks of age and no problems with latching since. They have wonderful latches and when I had observed them post revision they had beautiful suck swallow patterns with great audible swallows. Mom reports 2-3 poops a day with at least 10 wet diapers a day. At night she pumps and feeds a 4oz bottle each between 8 and 9pm. They sleep until 2am where they are up nursing/sleeping until 5 or 6 am. Father gives 4oz bottles of expressed breast milk every 3 hours while she works. The boys have never lost weight at all, they gain but just slowly. They are below the 3rd percentile per WHO weight for age boys chart however they are not decreasing any percentiles. The pediatrician she sees has told her she must supplement with formula and she has one month to gain weight using formula or he will call CPS on her. I am flabbergasted at this. This mom is doing so well for having twins and she is terrified she will lose her babies at this point. I've never dealt with such a situtation and I'm hoping you wise and wonderful ladies can help give me a little guidance on how to proceed here. From everything I have found from mom indicates her littles are growing well and thriving. From everything I have ever been...
    1 replies | 138 view(s)
  • @llli*carm3's Avatar
    January 5th, 2018, 04:32 AM
    Good luck with things Mama!
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    January 4th, 2018, 08:47 PM
    I now have a plan in place - that we started today =) - so hopefully it will work and I won’t have more questions, but I know where to come if I do! Thank you for all of the input.
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    January 4th, 2018, 05:49 PM
    Ok it sounds like you have a plan in place that is working so far? Or did you need more suggestions on anything?? Please, let us know.
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    January 4th, 2018, 04:42 PM
    @carm3, I don’t think vasospasms are my problem, though I can’t say for sure. I have occasionally had my nipples turn whitish at the ends, but it always seems due to compression during nursing and returns to normal after. I might have vasospasms due to a bad latch, but I think the source of my problem is the bad latch, which I have tried in vain to correct. My mom even commented on how painful it looked at Christmas (and she was sitting halfway across the room). I saw a breastfeeding specialist with my daughter (I think she was 13 months old at the time), and she said my daughters tie revision sites had healed perfectly, but for whatever reason, she never relearned how to properly latch/suck. I think it’s the same issue here. I really am ok with this transition. I am done trying to figure out how to make things work and am ready to just move on with this, as it is what will work best for our family at this time. This baby will likely be our last due to my health issues (which do not have any relation to this situation, outside of my emotional/mental health dealing with constant pain), so I don’t need to figure anything out to make changes next time.
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*carm3's Avatar
    January 4th, 2018, 02:24 PM
    I wonder if you've had issues with vasospasms at all? It might be worth doing Dr. Newman's protocol - it's just vitamin B and magnesium so it's not like you'd have much to lose by trying it. It made a big difference for me when nothing else worked for my pain (including lip/tongue tie revision). Your nipples are so used to be compressed that the blood vessels have sort of an automatic clamping reaction to nursing. This helps to relax them.
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    January 4th, 2018, 01:53 PM
    I’m sorry, we’ve been traveling the past few days. I will try to give decent background: Baby was born with a posterior tongue tie and upper lip tie which were revised before he was a week old. The only “symptom” was nipple pain while nursing - lipstick shape after nursing, bruising, cracks, blisters, and bleeding. We did CST, suck training, and the stretches recommended by the provider, but after several months, nothing had changed. The same thing happened with his sister (who is now 3). The difference between the two is that when this baby’s teeth started coming in, the pain increased for me. He just broke a new tooth, which explains why nursing was getting more painful the past week or two (I did try different positions to see if that would help - it didn’t). I nursed my daughter for 18 months despite the pain, but I can’t do that again, especially since it is more painful this time around. I was originally just trying to get ideas about how to handle nighttime feedings. Since posting, I have tried to feed baby a bottle of mixed breastmilk and formula to try to get him to accept the formula (which has worked). I know this isn’t ideal, but at least he’s taking it and still getting breastmilk. Now my plan is to continue mixing bottles for as long as my supply can keep up - thankfully he only takes 2-3oz bottles (1oz breastmilk and 2oz formula) every 2hrs, so I only need a max of 12oz breastmilk/day. I’m pumping every 2-3 hours during the day and will try to pump...
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    January 4th, 2018, 12:28 PM
    fyi previous thread http://forums.llli.org/showthread.php?127335-Partial-Weaning-an-8-month-old&p=1373510#post1373510 I am not sure what your question is, mama7008? Are you wanting to figure out how to pump more, or help baby be comforted overnight with bottles and not nursing- or something else? Any ideas on why nursing at night is becoming more painful after the switch to pumping during the day? (If that is what is happening.) We discussed before about the difficult balance when weaning off the breast - on the one hand, knowing that you are in (so far, unresolvable) pain and want the process to be complete sooner rather than later, while at the same time being careful to not exacerbate issues of plugs etc. that are part of the pain problem. So I just wanted to check in on how you think that is going.
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*djs.mom's Avatar
    January 2nd, 2018, 12:00 PM
    Yeah I am confused here too. it sounds like now you are pumping his day meals and feeding him his night meals due to breast pain from feeding. But that he still very much needs the night time connection to you and getting up to pump isn't an option and the baby is able to transfer milk just fine on his own when he dream feeds. Is that the jist of it? If so let's talk about the breast pain. It is all of the breast or just the nipple? Is it pain that's always been there or it's new? Is it latch based or do you think it's something else? Have you been seen for thrush?
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*carm3's Avatar
    January 2nd, 2018, 10:26 AM
    I'd really like some more info about the pain you're experiencing. 8 months is a really long time to have pain. I'm sure you've probably tried a bunch of stuff to get rid of it, but if you could just remind me, maybe something'll pop out that's worth trying. Unfortunately I don't have much experience with bottles (neither of mine would take them) so I don't know I'd be much help there :/
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    January 1st, 2018, 08:35 AM
    Hello, I have an 8 month old I’ve just in the past two weeks switched from breast to bottles. Originally I thought I would just pump and feed during the day, then nurse at night (he transfers fine; it’s just very painful for me and only getting worse). However, it’s becoming too painful. The problem is, right now I’m just barely able to keep up with his demand during the day (he takes 2-3oz every 2hrs; I pump for ~15-20 mins every 2hrs and yield about that, sometimes more in the morning - I pump until I’m not getting anything even with breast compressions or hand expression). His schedule at night varies so much - waking anywhere from 2-6x, I don’t know how I would manage pumping and feeding (plus I’m already dead from lack of sleep and can’t imagine getting up to pump). Also, the one time I’ve tried to feed him a bottle during the night, he completely freaked out and wouldn’t calm down until I offered the breast. I’m not against formula during the night, but so far he hasn’t taken the two kinds we’ve tried (during the day). I’m not sure if it’s because he truly hates the taste (he’ll eat about 1oz of it), or if he knows he can get breastmilk if he just waits it out. We had this experience with the bottles, too - he refused them, but we just kept offering (and not offering breast - he ate 2 oz over 6 hours that morning...) until finally he realized that was his only choice, and he’s been fine with them since. I want him to still get breastmilk until a year for the health...
    9 replies | 370 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    December 24th, 2017, 04:37 PM
    Glad to help. Protect yourself during the holidays! Running around, travel and stress tend to breed plugs and mastitis as I am sure you know! I am so sorry nursing is so painful. Some moms find hand expression helps when trying to keep the milk flowing to avoid plugs while reducing nursing or pumping is not doing the trick. Emotionally, weaning tends to be a tricky time for moms no matter the age of child. I have learned over the years that every age has unique challenges and unique joys.
    3 replies | 738 view(s)
  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    December 22nd, 2017, 11:32 PM
    Thank you so much for your detailed reply! I have always been prone to plugs (and mastitis), so I am going to be very careful in reducing feeds. As much as I want to quit cold turkey right now - nursing is excruciating - I know not to do that! Or even to cut multiple sessions even in the same week - aiming for supplementing one feed/week, possibly every 4-5 days if I’m not too uncomfortable. I will look at the positioning suggestions and tips to try to alleviate some of that discomfort during this process - thank you. Thankfully, we eat a fairly meat/veggie/fruit heavy diet due to my health issues, so he’s not getting a lot of breads/cereals at all (really just those little cereal puffs while traveling!). So far we’ve been able to keep his gut moving by offering prunes every day, which he loves. We are watching carefully as we start offering food more often. I’m not confident that I will be able to maintain my supply for long by pumping - I never responded well to the pump with my daughter, but have done ok with this baby (enough to leave occasional bottles with dad while I run errands). My current plan is to try to eventually get to where I pump 3-4x a day (depending on output) and use that in his sippy with meals/freeze any extra, nurse during the night (as long as my supply lasts), and supplement formula for the remaining feedings he needs. I do recognize there is a great risk both with pushing more solids and using bottles that he will refuse the breast (we do...
    3 replies | 738 view(s)
  • @llli*maddieb's Avatar
    December 20th, 2017, 11:31 PM
    Unfortunately it is probably not possible to generally accurately estimate how often an 8 month old would need to nurse in order to get their nutritional needs met. It depends on too many factors. You could try weighing baby before and after baby nurses, to see how much he intakes when he nurses. This would require renting an infant scale and would be pretty inconvenient, because you would want to try to weigh baby immediately before and immediately after as many feedings as possible over a few days to get a reliable daily estimate. But from that, you could figure out an approximation of how much to supplement with formula or expressed milk depending on how many nursing sessions were dropped. Before I go on about weaning, I will mention a couple things just to hopefully help in your discomfort more immediately, and also a caution. Plugged ducts are usually a sign that milk is not being removed frequently or effectively enough. Baby may be getting enough, what I mean is that plugs are often a sign that milk removal is not optimal for YOU. So, reducing how often baby nurses while that is going on may in fact exacerbate that issue. Eventually, reducing how often baby nurses (and/or how often you pump) will in turn reduce production, so the key to avoid worsening the plug situation is reducing milk removal gradually. Or, if you plan to pump more and nurse less, make very sure the pump is working very effectively, fits right, etc, and is removing milk from all the...
    3 replies | 738 view(s)
  • @llli*mama7008's Avatar
    December 20th, 2017, 10:50 AM
    I’m desperate and need advice. Baby will be 8 months at the end of this month. He had a tongue/lip tie, just like his sister, and revision didn’t help my pain (just like his sister). He’s gotten a couple teeth now, and nursing has become even more painful (he’s a biter, too, and smiles at any attempts to correct it). I’m now getting plugs and bruised nipples again. I was already planning to wean around a year, as I just can’t take this much longer, but I need help/relief now. How many times a day should he be nursing to satisfy nutritional requirements? He nurses an average of 10x a day right now, sometimes more; rarely less. He’s very enthusiastic about solids, but so far we just feed him dinner (whatever we’re having + prunes and water - he has had constipation issues since birth). As long as I nurse him beforehand, is it ok to offer food at each meal? How would I go about cutting down to minimum feedings (ideally, I would like to cut down to ~4 feedings during the day - wakeup and before meals, plus somehow get down to 2x a night), and should I offer replacement expressed milk/formula? Is it even possible to manage this? Also should add - he has almost zero comfort or sleep association with nursing - he doesn’t want to nurse when he needs comfort, he goes down for naps awake, and half the time he wakes at night to nurse, hubby has to get him back to sleep or he just lays in our bed talking/babbling til he falls asleep on his own (he sleeps first stretch in...
    3 replies | 738 view(s)
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